FIFA & PES: Contrast & Compare

Discussion in 'FIFA' started by Clown Baby, 8 September 2015.

  1. mfmaxpower

    mfmaxpower International

    29 July 2010
    You've described really well why sometimes playing PES I feel like I'm playing a turn-based game. I put in my input and wait for the game to decide what should happen. Obviously all games are like that in reality, but most modern day games mask that process.

    Having said that, it's interesting to me how the two games are in stark contrast with their approach to this, and both have equally big, but different, issues because of it.

    PES is a very curated experience. The game limits freedom and responsiveness, but in return you don't get animations and interactions that look horribly weird, unrealistic and just wrong like can happen in FIFA. It's all very polished and refined but that's because PES doesn't allow you to do whatever you want whenever you want. There's strict limitations.

    FIFA on the other hand takes a sand box approach to its gameplay. And not the RDR2 sand box approach, but more like Far Cry. It wants to allow you to do whatever you want, obviously within the confines of certain rules, but those boundaries are often blurry. So you get hyper-responsive gameplay with tons of freedom, that allows for far greater variety, but you get rag-doll player animations and way too much randomness; it feels far less grounded than PES.

    I don't know that either approach is better than the other, as both come with sacrifices. Ideally I think both games would be better served by moving a little in the direction of the other.
     
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  2. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    100% agree.

    PES with more freedom and a more expansive AI.
    FIFA with more restriction to the silly animation and "slideyness" (which would mean less variables for the AI to worry about, too, which should make it a little easier for the AI to outplay you).

    Both would be positive steps.
     
  3. Dennis_87

    Dennis_87 Championship

    27 September 2017
    As it is now,i feel like Pes' animation ''life cycle'' is more realistic because it has a start,a middle point and a finish.
    Plus the weight.Where in Fifa it's like most animations have a start and a finish without a middle point and this happens to favor responsiveness.That's why it also lacks a correct weight feeling most of the time.
    From there it goes to personal preference.I personally prefer the feel of Pes.

    I agree that both games could benefit from eachother's elements but it's a thin line and things could go easily wrong if not implemented correctly..

    I would want some Ignite Engine flexibility(cause Frostbite is clunkier in that aspect)in terms of body limbs movement etc and more freedom in general with less stiffness implemented to Pes,but only as long as it doesn't fuck up the weight and the naturality of the animation cycle in favor of responsiveness.I wouldn't sacrifice any of that.
    Even if i'm frustrated sometimes by getting the ball stolen because the animation takes it's time to complete or can't dribble pass easily an opponent,i still prefer to have this weighty complete natural animation cycle feel.
    If anything i would just want the dribbling and the pressuring to have a more well balanced feel between them,but certainly not to a point where it would become a ''fun'' dribble fest with ridiculous scorelines.

    On the other hand Fifa could benefit from Pes' weightiness and implement a more natural animation cycle with less twitchiness.But the problem is that probably most Fifa players wouldn't want this kind of approach as it would also mean less responsiveness and they are not used to that.But it has animation variety and flexibility and could be better, at least for my likings,if they tweaked some things,but i don't see them going that way,at least for now,cause they just have an other philosophy for their gameplay,and it still sells good as it is.But that also has to do with the brandname and the licenses etc.

    It will be interesting though to see how both games will evolve their gameplay in the coming years with all the possibilities we will have..I hope they will stick more to a realism path but in the end it all depends from what most people will ask for..Cause we have tons of people that could play a football game but not necessarily being real football fans,so they'll just want a fun convenient game and not necessarily realistic..

    For the speed issue that Chris mentions,i don't see it personally.I don't think catch up bug exists in this Pes.In some previous versions yeah,but not in this.Maybe offline is a bit different due to some other parameters like TS etc but for online that i can speak of,i have Hazard and Salah on the wings and if i past a player or have an advantage over them for 1-2 meters,there's no way the opponent will catch me,especially if he's slower.And this happens anywhere on the pitch,not only on the wings.I think this is the first Pes after many years that have so correct speed differences between different players.I have Pique who's strong and good in the air but i can be in a difficult situation against quick opponents and on the other hand i won't struggle as much if i use a quicker CB but i could have other disadvantages if he's not strong or tall enough etc.
    Also when you're running with the ball,if you slightly change directions then your player slows down a bit and the opponent could catch you but i find this natural and realistic as in real life.No one can sprint full speed and change directions in the same time without slowing down a little bit.
    But if you run straight and you're faster than your opponent then he'll never catch you.Stamina also plays a big role in this regard either for your player's favor or for the opponent's.

    In general,to properly judge a particular match,i think it must be in Exhibition or with high TS or players feelings off etc.If you play with very low TS you may not have a proper feeling sometimes due to other different parameters as bad combinations,either less responsiveness etc.We all know that TS can play a big role sometimes,even more of what it should.The good thing is that with a 99 TS it almost feels like an Exhibition match many times.I'm playing online with 99 TS and i don't see many insane bullshit personally.Most of the time the best player and the one who deserves it more will win,and with a bit of luck that is necessary sometimes.But that's in real football also.
     
    Sovereign Hope and Chris Davies like this.
  4. Mikhail

    Mikhail Championship

    10 August 2018
    FIFA needs a new engine, new defending mechanics and everything needs to be more weighty and slower.

    Single player is farcical now, I’m running away in first place with Reading without even trying. The CPU allows me to score when I want because a few players have green arrows above their heads. So boring.

    Online is a horrific. Me and a friend played co-op sessions earlier for the first time since the updates. We laughed and then we sighed. Overhead kicks in defence to clear it out for a throw. Every match played at 100mph. Having to tackle my opponent five times to try and win the ball yet still failing.

    It’s like I ‘put up’ with fifa and force myself to enjoy it. In the good old days, I would play PES for hours and hours without even thinking about how I could change anything in settings, it was that good.

    Fifa for me is ‘change camera, game feels better for a while, actually no wait it’s still shit. Apply these sliders - game feels better. Actually, no, game now feels like we’re controlling sail barges in syrup. Maybe Legendary IS harder than Ultimate? That’s what they say on Reddit! No, I just beat Aston Villa 5-1 with my second string Reading side.’

    FIFA is a hot mess catered for kids who want rainbow goals.
     
    Tinker likes this.
  5. Lons

    Lons AMIGA HARDCORE FAN!

    15 December 2007
    Warsaw and Danzig Poland
    Don't agree with You. PES feels too stiff, rails and automatic game. Pass,pass shot pass shot pass,pressing,pressing,shot,pass......crazy. FIFA feels more deep in colliosion, more random and not feel so automatic. Online experiance as well. Don't know offline games.

    Automatic i mean:

    132632_1.jpg
     
  6. Mikhail

    Mikhail Championship

    10 August 2018
    I dont disagree - I didn't say PES was better, or worse, or whatever.

    PES IS on rails and stiff. FIFA is too far the other way, its all over the place.

    We need a third developer. I'm sick of both EA and Konami. PES will be my game for this year, but in small doses. There are too many good video games to get sucked into rather than waste my spare time playing Sailboat Challenge and messing with it's sliders & settings for 12 months to try and get 12 minutes of fun out of it.
     
    Filippo-Inzaghi and Chris Davies like this.
  7. philla

    philla League 1

    24 November 2014
    I think PES largely unfolds when playing it full manual, as it is far too assisted and linear on PA1. This is a thing FIFA does better without doubt, but it gets obsolete when playing on full manual.
     
  8. Lons

    Lons AMIGA HARDCORE FAN!

    15 December 2007
    Warsaw and Danzig Poland
    My heart is with PES but brain with FIFA.
     
  9. philla

    philla League 1

    24 November 2014
    I saw someone posting on another board years ago:

    FIFA is the eager careerist,
    PES is the sloppy genius.
     
  10. PES is Lopetegui's Real Madrid - A highly unexploited potential.
    FIFA is Valverde's Barcelona - It won't be revolutionising football anytime soon, but it's effective and it gets the job done.
     
  11. hitmanuk

    hitmanuk Champions League

    23 October 2002
    uk
    I have now had a week with FIFA and left PES alone - played every day - monday night spent 4 hours straight on it. Playing and adjusting sliders to suit my taste. Finally found some i could get a long with for a bit - even had 6 fouls in one game.
    However the core of the game is the same - constantly wresting with the AI, the AI insane no look one touch passing and the ball movement isnt right - theirs virtually no bounce in passing - the ball still seems to slow down unnaturally and the result of it all just kills the natural flow of the game to a point where it become tedious. I think FIFA is trying to be too technical

    PES has its own issues certainly with ML but other modes the game just flows better - pretty sure its mainly down to how the ball moves. Played for the first time today and it just felt better to play
     
  12. Mikhail

    Mikhail Championship

    10 August 2018
    This sums it up pretty well.

    Fifa is a slog at times, it wears me out playing it, I feel exhausted afterwards. And not in a good way.

    PES I can play a few matches and really enjoy them. It’s fun.

    Neither game is good enough for long sessions. That’s what I’ve got other gaming for though.
     
  13. Filippo-Inzaghi

    Filippo-Inzaghi League 2

    11 July 2006
    Copenhagen
    AC Milan
    Agree with a lot of you in here.

    It's strange this year. Really started to think that both games had everything - That we had two really great football games - Now I'm not so sure.

    Both games feel boring in periods (often after several games in a row). But FIFA is for me not an option offline. CM has a big potential, but is just a ''pretty picture''. There isn't any effect in any of the functions. For example - playing as Las Palmas with the biggest goal to secure a place in the best division the year after, I didn't succeed with it. I was number 9 - But I didn't get fired. My rating did fall - but from 80 points to 78. There isn't any consequence. So what am I playing for?

    The same with transfers. I can buy ANYONE if I have the money. This is also the case in PES, but it is at least harder.

    In PES with challenge mode, there is a consequence. Yes, it's scripted etc.. But is at least challenged. Actually, I did have a run of good matches. I like the flow and the difficulty. I do also feel a difference between the teams in terms of bad/good - but I can still have a hard time breaking down a less good team. I like that.
     
  14. Mikhail

    Mikhail Championship

    10 August 2018
    FIFA always feels great at first, especially if you've bought PES 2019 a few weeks before which feels bare bones. It has all the glitz, the glamour, the stadia, the commentary etc.

    Then the cracks appear after you've played half a season with it. I've said it before - FIFA is easy because the kids want to sign who they want, they want the little flicks and tricks, the in-your-face overpowerered attacking play and watered down defending.

    Quote me on this:- FIFA will never, ever have an enjoyable, challenging single player mode again. FUT is simply too popular for EA to focus heavily on anything else. We're stuck with super fast gameplay by default, we're stuck with the awful Tactical (yeah right) Defending and we're stuck with the game being super easy every year until the they get away from the turgid Frostbite Engine.

    PES 2019 might be on-rails and archaic. But it's challenging, fun and rewarding. You rarely hear about a PES Master League player winning the Champions League on their SD Eibar save. But take a look at the FIFA Careers Sub Reddit. I've seen people winning EVERY trophy on offer in the same season with the likes of Las Palmas and Atalanta because their squads are littered with the best players in the game, again, because there is ZERO challenge.

    FIFA 19 in single player is pointless. Online it's a super fast mess.
     
    Filippo-Inzaghi likes this.
  15. Filippo-Inzaghi

    Filippo-Inzaghi League 2

    11 July 2006
    Copenhagen
    AC Milan
    Actually, I was challenged on legendary in FIFA. As pointed out I was 9th in the second division. Not good enough - but when the board is ''more than happy'' with that performance, everything falls apart from me. Every stadia in the world can't make up for that.

    In PES everything is more simple, yes. But it at least means something. I'm 6th with Milan - and I'm on the verge of getting fired. It has to be in that way.

    Maybe tactics mean something in FIFA, but on higher difficulties, I still feel I'm playing the same game again and again.. I don't know how, but in PES it's actually ain't the feeling.

    But. The glory days are definitely over for both titles in terms of offline gaming. I see myself playing 4-5 games in a row. Then I'm tired.
     
  16. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    I've kept going back to PES 2019 (by which I mean, a game a night) because of the challenge - it gives me the old PES feeling, and I don't mean a romanticised one, I mean the feeling of "I swear I'll beat this f#$king AI in a minute, and when I do it'll feel great".

    FIFA doesn't have that same hook - especially when you get a few good players in and your team gets green form arrows. It does all become routine once you get too good.

    But after trying to become invested in PES, as Newcastle, I bought a couple of brilliant wing-backs (using all my transfer budget) before the window closed. Newcastle's current players in those positions are terrible, and I want to build from the wing.

    So I bought Semedo from Barcelona, and Mendy from Lyon. World class players. Both for £10m each. (I don't care that they'd never move to Newcastle in reality, and never for such a low price, I accept the transfers are generally broken, it's not a big deal to me.)

    Beforehand, every time I was trying to get through-balls down the wing, the players just weren't fast enough to get away from the opposition full-backs.

    So, first game with the new players, I was genuinely excited to try them out.

    To my horror, these players with 80-90 speed attributes, run at the same speed as the previous players (despite the attribute differences), and feel exactly the same.

    It just makes absolutely no difference - every player I control and every player I come up against is the same, and games are governed by the "team spirit" and difficulty level. Nothing else.

    Not only that, but in the same game (though it happens almost every game), I had a few glorious scoring opportunities that my striker put wide, because your input is absolutely pointless on the default shooting method. Assisted doesn't just mean a little help (or a little anti-help because of the player's poor attributes), it means totally overriding your input to suit the difficulty level more than anything else.

    When I do score, it doesn't feel like I scored - only that the game decided I should, so it put the ball somewhere for me (not near where I wanted to put it). So even when I win, that old feeling of satisfaction isn't there.

    So I'm drawing a line under PES for this year - why play a career mode where your management doesn't really change anything? I might as well play Football Manager (well, I am).

    I'm hoping the next FIFA patch (out now on PC) makes things a little more interesting against the AI, but if it doesn't, that's me done for the year.
     
    Last edited: 21 November 2018
    Topaz likes this.
  17. Dennis_87

    Dennis_87 Championship

    27 September 2017
    Maybe it's time for them to get rid of the Team Spirit and implement some Team Brains in this bitch for a change...:DD
     
  18. philla

    philla League 1

    24 November 2014
    I wonder if these stats issues are a ML thing alone, as i am playing just offline seasons.

    I am playing with a custom edited team with quite bad players (Stats around 60, some talented players above and substitutes clearly below). Especially in movement, physicality, dribbling and speed i clearly see and feel a difference between a 50 or a 70 rated player and it does instantly influence my decisions what to do with him.

    Maybe this gap closes within the higher values of top-players or the team-spirit and its influence in different modes really is the decisive factor.
     
    PRO_TOO likes this.
  19. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    It may be that the gap closes with higher values - but then "Team Spirit" drags it into a negative effect, with physical attributes, which makes no sense. By which, I mean:

    Despite buying a 90-speed wing-back, he is visibly outpaced by a 70-speed full-back, every time (my TS is 50). Maybe it's because I have the ball and that slows you down - but if that's why, that's madness, especially when I'm using "speed burst" to knock the ball further ahead.

    I also noticed on three occasions last night (yes, I tried again, I'm an idiot), I passed to a player stood ahead of the AI defender, who would then either stand bolted to the ground as the defender ran through him to intercept, or jog backwards (running away from the pass) so the defender could intercept.

    Once you see that, I don't know how you can carry on. Yes it's more of a challenge than FIFA, but jumping out of a plane without a parachute is a challenge. That doesn't make it fun.
     
  20. Madmac79

    Madmac79 Premiership

    11 September 2006
    Try to play on zero speed instead of minus 1 or 2.

    I've come to the conclusion that the global speed option somehow neuter pace differences too. I'm not playing at all in this moment (no Pes, nor Fifa, nothing), but I swear that at zero I could feel fast players way better and meaningfully than with slower speed settings. I just have the impression that the speed "slider" doesn't work as it should.
     
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  21. philla

    philla League 1

    24 November 2014
    Yes, i noticed it as well, already in PES2018. But as far as i experienced, it is avoidable. It is essential to move the stick towards the ball with the receiving player, at least i never have this problem if i do so.

    It doesn´t work if the program logic fails to detect what player you are aiming for, which is regularly happening on full manual unfortunatly.
     
  22. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    I do play on -1, because it's way too fast on zero in my opinion - but I'll give zero a go tonight in-case it's applying the ratio of speed increase/decrease in a strange fashion.

    Speaking of game speed, I only noticed for the first time last night that if you play on less than zero, when the countdown clock is supposed to be real-time (when taking a goal kick for example), it ticks in slow motion, so every second is approximately two seconds, which looks craaaaazy.

    Well I'm playing on PA1, so it knows full well who I'm aiming for because it's putting the ball in their path for me... It's just bolting the receiver to the ground (as soon as I have control of the receiver I start pushing the stick either in the direction of the ball or the direction of open space - but nothing happens, I assure you, which I'm guessing is the "Team Spirit" effect).
     
  23. rockstrongo

    rockstrongo International

    25 August 2006
    Sweden
    Hammarby
    I haven't played Pes 19 in a few weeks,maybe a month,been on FIFA.
    The reason is FIFA is a no brainer for me right now because of time.
    I think,and that's why I haven't touched Pes for a while,it's so much tougher, especially when playing it manually,I was struggling so badly when playing my Milan save on TP/SS,which lead to me giving up.

    I don't have the time right now to play Pes manually,which is imo the only way to play it,on rails? not one bit
    I really need to take a week and sink my teeth in to it again,since I find it miles better (game play) than FIFA.

    But FIFA is very rewarding and very fun to play,it's all there,stadiums presentation, gameplay is good,and it's easier to just sit down and play,you don't have to edit anything (wish some could be done in fifa though)

    So for me Pes and FIFA serves both my needs,a lenghty MLand a casual CM/player career for a few seasons.
    I think this year's FIFA despite no freekicks and hardly any penalties are the best one since 16 for me.
    And it's been a while since we had two games being ok/good/great.
     
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  24. rockstrongo

    rockstrongo International

    25 August 2006
    Sweden
    Hammarby
    And (forgot) I think,for me playing player career mostly,it's a very tough and challenging game (FIFA).
    Firstly it's quite scripted in that mode and that's fine by me,and starting out like I did with Burnley as a 70 ovr (was 75 after one season) the challenge always keeps me going.
    Scored 8 goals my first season on WC,and now starting season two,I've been sidelined for 5 games and got a loan at Villa,I'm shit there to:)

    But that keeps me going,to finally get to a season where I score left and right,that's when the fun for me stops.
    Never played BAL on Pes,mainly because it's a fixed cursor on that game,and it really kills it for me.
     
    Chris Davies likes this.
  25. Mikhail

    Mikhail Championship

    10 August 2018
    I can’t play either game in single player. Fifa and PES are boring, shallow experiences.

    Haven’t touched either of them in days now and am far happier from a gaming perspective for it. Just finished Red Dead 2 and am having a blast with BF V. Football gaming in single player is dead to me.

    Fifa is too easy, clunky, man, it’s a nasty game. Doesn’t play like football, or look like it - it’s a floaty, turgid mess.

    PES is slightly better but boring. Play at the same stadia every match, AI is poor, everything feels slightly automated.

    F**k EA and f**k Konami.
     
  26. Lons

    Lons AMIGA HARDCORE FAN!

    15 December 2007
    Warsaw and Danzig Poland
    I like two of them. Fifa and Pes are great games :D
     
    Madmac79 likes this.
  27. superleeds1

    superleeds1 72 Veteran Staff

    16 July 2004
    LUFC O.K.

    Hahahaha, there will be people here who cannot handle that !

    download.gif
     
    Lons likes this.
  28. Dennis_87

    Dennis_87 Championship

    27 September 2017
    LOL some time ago you were like ''I'm glad we have two great games this year'' and now you're like ''They're both shit fuck EA fuck Konami!'':D
    But i kinda feel ya..In some cases in the past i was also excited for one of them or both of them in the beggining but then as time passed i was less and less excited..
    I understand the frustration that someone can have with single player in both games,especially in Pes where the mode is even more poor.
    For me,as i'm playing only online and myClub this year,it's still exciting and interesting as i'm playing online for the first time this year so it's something new and hasn't become boring yet..Just frustrating some times,but i can live with that.
    And now that i'm used to online and playing human opponents,it feels boring and uninteresting to play against cpu.
    It's just not the same..
    I can see why more and more people abandon offline modes worldwide and go to online..
    If both games don't really revolutionize AI and bring drastic changes in how the cpu reacts and plays in general soon,then in some years from now there won't be any offline modes to begin with..
     
    Mikhail likes this.
  29. DerleiPT

    DerleiPT Pes Master

    29 October 2009
    Chelsea FC
    if someone think that single mode in fifa 19 is bad then i suggest to try online for at least 2 hours. I am sure you will change you mind . 99% online fifa players use same tactic. Super fast ping pong passes then triangle button pass and they score goal. everything is assisted so what we can expect ? :D
     
  30. Rodchenko

    Rodchenko League 1

    12 November 2009
    Berlin, Germany
    FC Bayern
    This looks fairly good to me, speed-wise.



    Turned running speed down to 30 for both, passing speed and acceleration slightly under 50 and passing error to 55 and this is immense fun at the moment as Newcastle on Legendary career.

    I've given up on PES pretty much for the exact reasons you mentioned. There is lots of crappy stuff in FIFA, but unlike PES, I always feel in control of what's happening on the pitch.

    Edit: this is not my video. I found it on youtube when looking for slider settings and it made me give FIFA a second chance
     
    Last edited: 28 November 2018
    Colon, Madmac79, Chris Davies and 2 others like this.

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