FIFA 20 Discussion (Console Versions)

embraceuk1 said:
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One other interesting detail from this list: I remember years ago (when the game was still very challenging, and there were no people complaining about how easy it is on ultimate), that many many people had a problem finding professional too easy and WC too hard, it really felt like there was a difficulty level missing in between. And this graph pretty much confirms what many average users felt simply by playing the game, there is a 25% gap between them, the biggest difficulty spike in the list.
 
So are there people here who have played Career Mode beta? Is it difficult now on Ultimate or still easy to go on 20 game unbeaten runs?
 
Sabac Red said:
It's 2019 not 1967 the tech is there, it's bad programming or just lazyness. In 19 I get fouled, win fouls the best way to do this is to jockey, draw them in, put the cpu in a comprising position where they have to foul you a bit like irl. It's not perfect but it works...
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The tech might be available, but it's not in either game, hence the annual complaints about fouling. The engine governing physical interactions and collisions in FIFA is a bit of a mess - see all the complaints in recent years of rag-doll animations and the like - and as such the fouling system is poor and inconsistent.

Fouls aren't in the game not because the technology is there and EA just doesn't want to use it; they aren't in the game because the game engines aren't advanced enough and increasing fouls called would just lead to the same situation we have with the PES demo where you just get tons of controversial calls, which is the last thing FIFA needs right now considering it's extremely rough year on the competitive scene.
 
Nacho10 said:
Yeah , I noticed that with the AI in FIFA too, they just love making a reckless lunging slide tackle in the box for some reason. Not sure we should draw attention to it though or they might fix it with a no penalties solution!
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Many penalties happen like this irl, how many times do you see a player burst through in the penalty area only to be taken down by a tralling leg or mistimed slide tackle?

I manage to get penalties throughout the season no problem. Also look how many penalties were awarded to teams in the ELP last season it ranged from 3 to 12.

Ideally yes there needs to be a fix but there also needs to be balance.
 
mfmaxpower said:
they aren't in the game because the game engines aren't advanced enough and increasing fouls called would just lead to the same situation we have with the PES demo where you just get tons of controversial calls
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Is it, tho?
Or is it just a matter of increasing AI aggression, making them to pressure and tackle you more, or do sliding tackles every now and again, at least as the last resort?
 
Emroth said:
Is it, tho?
Or is it just a matter of increasing AI aggression, making them to pressure and tackle you more, or do sliding tackles every now and again, at least as the last resort?
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You're right, it's a mix of things. The CPU AI definitely could use with being more aggressive, although on the other hand I don't think they have near enough tackle animations in the game (which has also been one of the biggest issues with defending in general). It all goes hand in hand.

But the problem with FIFA - and this gets exaggerated in the penalty box, which is where you've got to get fouling right - is that the animation system is so wild and inconsistent that not only do so many loose ball situations end up with some type of collision that probably could be called a foul, but you never really know what you're player is going to do in defense. I swear out of everything in FIFA, it's the tackle animations that often leave me muttering to myself "that's... not what I intended."

Also, remember that all of this is way worse in online play. The BS that happens when playing online is unreal, and they gotta fix all that before calling more fouls.

I wish as much as anyone that realistic fouls were in the game more. At the same time, this has gotta be just about the hardest thing to program in gaming - we're talking about subjective decisions by the AI after all - and so personally I'm more inclined to give these games a bit of a pass because of that.
 
This is a surprisingly excellent discussion about passing (and defending) in fifa on reddit in case you are active there and you want it to gain some traction:

How passing should work in FIFA

Perfectly explains why passing in fifa is perhaps my #1 problem with the game in the last two years (the other is that teams are not compact enough to defend well and AI defenders are dumb as bricks anyway). My concern is that those two things together are EA's tricks to make the game faster and more "exciting" for everyone (and by "everyone" I mean people who haven't got a clue about how football works). It may be a Fut-centric discussion but it goes to show how not all things requested by fut/pro players are necessarily detrimental to the offline game.
 
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manmachine said:
This is a surprisingly excellent discussion about assisted passing in fifa on reddit in case you are active there and you want it to gain some traction:

How passing should work in FIFA

Perfectly explains why passing in fifa is perhaps my #1 problem with the game in the last two years (the other is that teams are not compact enough to defend well and AI defenders are dumb as bricks anyway). My concern is that those two things together are EA's tricks to make the game faster and more "exciting" for everyone. It may be a Fut-centric discussion but it goes to show how not all things requested by fut/pro players are necessarily detrimental to the offline game.
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Dude's not really describing it accurately though, and the bigger underlying problem is just the lack of realistic error, making it too easy to move the ball up the pitch, regardless of assistance settings or which target the game chooses for you.

His entire premise hinges on the idea that the game is overriding your chosen target to avoid a defender. This actually happens very rarely, and I've only seen it happen when the two players are super close together. If there's a defender in the way of the attacker you choose, the game simply assumes that you meant the other player. I agree that's not how it should be but it's pretty rare that the game isn't choosing the right target for you based on your aim and power.

Also, while sometimes this problem rewards the player when it shouldn't, it does go both ways and you'll have situations where you're punished by passing to the wrong player. I agree it's an issue for sure but hardly the biggest problem with passing.
 
mfmaxpower said:
His entire premise hinges on the idea that the game is overriding your chosen target to avoid a defender. This actually happens very rarely, and I've only seen it happen when the two players are super close together. If there's a defender in the way of the attacker you choose, the game simply assumes that you meant the other player. I agree that's not how it should be but it's pretty rare that the game isn't choosing the right target for you based on your aim and power.
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Well you're arguing that it rarely happens but I think we can all agree that the game correcting your bad decisions rather than assisting your aim should not be in the game. Also the game uses many tricks to make that happen. Attackers more alert to the ball than defenders, nutmegs, the dinked passes, etc. So it's not just one trick up the games sleeve. I think I agree with you about the lack of realistic error in passes, but that's in addition to all that it's not in contradiction. Of course the game pace is gonna be stupidly fast when the game works this way.

In a previous message I also mentioned how this completely ruined fifa 18 even if you played on semi or manual, because the cpu would pass like this anyway. No matter your settings, or how you'd play, the cpu would nutmeg you / or the pass would go through you anyway, even if you were correctly blocking that passing lane. It is beyond stupid, and one of the top reasons fifa feels nothing like football, at least to me. I am all for assisted passing, but it was never so badly designed before.
 
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manmachine said:
Well you're arguing that it rarely happens but I think we can all agree that the game correcting your bad decisions rather than assisting your aim should not be in the game. Also the game uses many tricks to make that happen. Attackers more alert to the ball than defenders, nutmegs, the dinked passes, etc. So it's not just one trick up the games sleeve.

In a previous message I also mentioned how this completely ruined fifa 18 even if you played on semi or manual. It wouldn't matter what settings you used, or how you'd play, the cpu would nutmeg you / or the pass would go through you anyway, even if you were correctly blocking that passing lane. It is beyond stupid, and one of the top reasons fifa feels nothing like football, at least to me. I am all for assisted passing, but it was never so badly implemented before.
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I agree the game shouldn't be making decisions for us. This is literally my biggest complaint with the other game's demo. So I don't disagree about it being an issue, but his whole thing is that's what's wrong with passing, whereas I'd argue it's the lack of error - and this extends to everything, not just passing - that is the biggest problem.

But attackers being more alert etc has nothing to do with assistance and everything to do with EA focusing so much on evolving the attacking side of the game so that it's become so OP relative to the defense. And it looks like they're removing the auto lunges - or at least making it optional, while the dink passes will have their own controls and won't be automatic anymore.

It sounds like FIFA 20 is more balanced, which is probably why so much of the player base is complaining.
 
mfmaxpower said:
I agree the game shouldn't be making decisions for us. This is literally my biggest complaint with the other game's demo. So I don't disagree about it being an issue, but his whole thing is that's what's wrong with passing, whereas I'd argue it's the lack of error - and this extends to everything, not just passing - that is the biggest problem.
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Yes I think I get what you mean about the lack of realistic error and I think I agree but that's in addition to all that. I have the exact same concerns with the PES demo as well (mainly how passing works, how defenders are oblivious to a ball right next to them, how pes tactics need a major overhaul) so despite the euphoria for fixing the AI, I'll just keep watching from a distance for more improvements. But I will keep an eye on it, I had some fun with the demo. And it's the same with fifa 20, a slight improvement in gameplay balance over 19 won't do the trick for me. They will have to go all the way and disappoint some casuals. Otherwise there are simply much better games to play.

I care about passing so much because that's what you'll be doing or defending 99% of the time. If there's no risk/reward, skill, or thought process required there's no point to anything else, it's just not football.
 
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manmachine said:
Yes I think I get what you mean about the lack of realistic error and I think I agree but that's in addition to all that. I have the exact same concerns with the PES demo as well (mainly how passing works, how defenders are oblivious to a ball right next to them, how pes tactics need a major overhaul) so despite the euphoria for fixing the AI, I'll just keep watching from a distance for more improvements. But I will keep an eye on it, I had some fun with the demo. And it's the same with fifa 20, a slight improvement in gameplay balance over 19 won't do the trick for me. They will have to go all the way and disappoint some casuals. Otherwise there are simply much better games to play.
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I feel ya. I only still play cause I'm such a fan of football. Like you said, neither football game is at the level as many of the games we've been treated to in recent years. For me, it's all about next gen at this point and my expectations aren't especially high for the last FIFA of this gen.
 
Mikhail said:
How does it play? Similar to 19 or a lot better?
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It’s very similar in a lot of ways.
But the AI has much better defensive awareness a lot harder just to sprint past them down the wings etc.
The slower pace means I’m using the right stick more to tap the ball in front to give me more time or break away.

I’m drawing a lot of games tho as the AI isn’t scoring many either so maybe ultimate difficulty will open both ends up for scoring opportunity's
 
embraceuk1 said:
It’s very similar in a lot of ways.
But the AI has much better defensive awareness a lot harder just to sprint past them down the wings etc.
The slower pace means I’m using the right stick more to tap the ball in front to give me more time or break away.

I’m drawing a lot of games tho as the AI isn’t scoring many either so maybe ultimate difficulty will open both ends up for scoring opportunity's
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Thanks.
 
embraceuk1 said:
I’m drawing a lot of games tho as the AI isn’t scoring many either so maybe ultimate difficulty will open both ends up for scoring opportunity's
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This doesn't surprise me. In 19, if you drop the run frequency down below 30 or so, the CPU really struggles to create scoring chances. Dropping that slider by itself meant I went from having a middling defense in the EPL to the top defense - by far - in one season. I've always held that so much of the OP attacking play in FIFA has been due to the huge increase in attacking runs in recent years, so it makes sense that their overhaul this year has this effect.

Personally I found that dropping the run frequency slider last year made the CPU way too easy to defend against. Hopefully in 20 the problem isn't that finally attacking play is more challenging but defending is too easy.
 
Apparently there was a patch for the beta.

"Gameplay has been updated to a more recent version. This means: Lots of general improvements have been done across all areas and various bugs have been fixed"

WOW. EA copying Konami? They've never been this vague about changes ever since they started the pitch notes. Good luck figuring out the patch guys, I don't have the beta, just saw it on twitter.

Does it now play as if someone pressed the fast forward button?! :)
 
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manmachine said:
Apparently there was a patch for the beta.

"Gameplay has been updated to a more recent version. This means: Lots of general improvements have been done across all areas and various bugs have been fixed"

WOW. EA copying Konami? They've never been this vague about changes ever since they started the pitch notes. Good luck figuring out the patch guys, I don't have the beta, just saw it on twitter.

Does it now play as if someone pressed the fast forward button?! :)
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I've been getting regular feedback from a few players (who don't share their feedback publicly because that breaks your NDAs) and they've been really enjoying it. Up to now.

Apparently, they've completely and utterly ruined it now. So. Heartbroken.

More on Reddit:
 
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Playing the new patched version bunch of fuss about nothing as per usual.
Night and Day they say I’m not even sure If gameplay is faster if it is it’s only slightly. Passing accuracy from the AI on legendarys still mid to low 80’s on average.
I’m still not sprinting away from defenders easily like in 19 for example.
 
First time tonight I’ve gotten team morale to go down after criticizing then after losing in penalties in the cup.
It’s always gone up hot matter what you say.
 
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