Sounds good fun Chris, the best moments of footy games are when the chips are down and you manage to scramble wins from scrappy goals. PES 2010 was ace for that. Despite really enjoying some of the recent FIFAs, after barely a couple months of playing intermittently online I'm already done with this years game. To begin with I assumed there was layers that will reveal themselves the more I progressed, but I've just reached D1 in seasons and have concluded there's absolutely zero depth to it as far as I can tell. Every game's a lottery. They're just a clumsy mess of both teams desperately trying to reign control of their players. Dribbling is both stupidly effective and completely counter intuitive. I never feel in control of the ball, yet despite that my attacks will always find a way to bumble through the defence into acres of space. I properly enjoyed both FIFA 15 and 16, but since Frostbite I feel completely dissociated to what's happening on the pitch. Like there's a minute input lag, which means both players are reacting half a second behind the play. I really miss football games man. In the last 10 years I've only gotten into PES 2011, FIFA 14, and FIFA 15. The rest all have small bits and pieces that are good, then suddenly disappear in the next version. I don't see EA moving away from Frostbite any time soon, and it's hard to believe Konami will suddenly get their house in order. If you took away the licensing and graphics, is there anything intrinsically difficult about sport's games that dissuades developers? There have been really high-end racing and FPS simulations from indie studios, but far as I'm aware there haven't been any sports titles recently that haven't come from EA, 2K and Konami. Have this fantasy of a 7-a-side RPG online game where all the players are user controlled. Basic graphics, no licenses, no AI. But perfectly emulated physics, footballing basics and properly simulated attributes.