FIFA 09 NG Improvements Thread

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Once you have finished a game online, you should be taken back to the lobby you came from and not to the top menu as you could lose your place in the lobby.

Bring the keepers out quicker when pressing triangle! Their reaction is shite.
 
I like all the things said until now except people asking for faster gameplay. Nooooo way!!!! That's one of the things I wouldn't touch at all, risking the whole game experience. I like it slow. It's the reactions and specially the pad responsiveness that should be faster, but the pace of the game is so spot on! I wouldn't like to send a wrong message to fifa (like, do it more arcadey... you know what happened to another football game...).

It's not critical, but would be great to have different profiles in the game.

That's it by now, all of you have covered almost everything I would expect for 09, specially Winston, as always.
 
Tim7 said:
If you click in the right analogue stick on Xbox360, the players top stats come up :)
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Online your only get to see about 5 "top" stats

Sometimes you get stats which are totally pointless in showing.
if i want to see which striker is a better finisher i cant unless its one of his tops stats

they should just have the 10 most important. Pace, passing, finishing, tackling, heading ect
 
I want to be able to see 2 players stats in juxtaposition (just like PES). I don't mind flicking through 4 or 5 screens to see all their stats so long as I can compare one player with another in one screen.

FIFA does many things well but their tactical options and presentation are weaker and to me, less intuitive than PES. That's probably partly due to the fact I've become so familiar with PES menus that it is second nature now.
 
Goalkeepers must be worse on the line and better when it comes to crosses and one-on-ones. More animations for these kind of situations (goalie and player).

Ball must feel heavier.

If these two things aare fixed, im a happy man :)
 
winston said:
I want to be able to see 2 players stats in juxtaposition (just like PES). I don't mind flicking through 4 or 5 screens to see all their stats so long as I can compare one player with another in one screen.

FIFA does many things well but their tactical options and presentation are weaker and to me, less intuitive than PES. That's probably partly due to the fact I've become so familiar with PES menus that it is second nature now.
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It's like this with most things on FIFA, too many pages to look at for info that could be put together on far less...
Also mentioned before, but money is far too easy and the Backroom stuff should be more involving.. the last thing being the lack of injuries, I've played nearly three seasons and had nothing more than a couple of slight knocks with the players missing a couple of games?
 
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Having played some FIFA08, I'll chip in my 2 cents.


Control

- Freekicks need to be redesigned. They seem to have gone for simplicity, but trying to condense the entire art of freekicking to a powerbar and top/backspin seems kind of offensive even.

At the very least, a separate height and power control is needed. That, combined with the top/backspin choice gives us proper choices for shooting.

For example, we could do shots (that aren't even possible in PES which has a slightly more advanced system) where you aim with low height, lots of power and backspin. The ball starts low, and then then slowly climbs as it shoots in a straight line up into the roof of the net.

For players with lesser skills in freekicking (lower FK accuracy or whatever the stat is for FIFA), the aim varies more in terms of how well the player can execute the height and aim/power you want. A poor player might shoot over even though your aim was good, etc. Also making sure that lesser players FK heights are more influenced by the power you add gives another dimension to the system (not only do you need to judge the height needed, you also need to aim slightly lower than you want since giving the shot power power might tend to give the ball more height.

Also really hard shots are harder to curl properly (higher chance of curling off somewhere you didn't want).

The angle of approach could be varied since the way you approach the ball means alot to how easy different types of curls are achieved.


This system, for uniformity and consistency, should be applied to corners aswell (since this system basically allows for all the trajectories and choices you'd have in real life, it's all you need really).

For goalkicks they might not be necessary, since goalkicks generally are struck the same way over and over (but if you desaign a good intuitive system, then definitely apply it to all setplay situations, for the sake of consistency and a realistic approach).


Making sure that there is inherent, everpresent, built-in inaccuracy properly proportioned for lesser and more skilled players (per the "FK Acc stat") will also prevent the AI from scoring constantly as is the trend I've seen when me or my brother is playing. Even very skilled players like Ronaldinho and Juninho need to have some inaccuracy and inconsistency, even if your aim and such are dead on.





- More predictable powers for analog passing/shooting. Not necessarily a powerbar for them all, but having more "linear" and quicker power-fillup for passing etc might make them easier to control. Again, the PC version seems to have this down much better than the Next-Gen interation.






Graphics

- Redesign the shooting animations.

Having played FIFA08 PC (CURRENT GEN), I have gotten used to the animations in that, and I generally think they are well worthy of being looked at for the next-gen version aswell. I love the shooting animations and such in the PC version.

But, more importantly, I often find the shooting animations very odd-looking in NG FIFA.

The biggest complaint is that the players rarely "shape" themselves as in real-life. When they shoot, the ball is often way too much infront of them, meaning it looks sort of like they contact the ball with the lip of their boot as their leg is on the "upswing" of the pendulum movement.

In real-life, you generally shoot by planting your supporting leg quite close to the ball. In FIFA they just seem to place it at a random place and then awkwardly adjust themselves to kick the ball. It doesn't look convincing to me.


For example: http://youtube.com/watch?v=yKz6exO2-v4&mode=related&search=8

About 15 seconds in, you have the french player shooting. His footplanting so far away from the ball and shaping himself the way he does makes him look like he will hardly be able to kick the ball at all in real-life, save for a semi-loose broadsider at close range. Needs to be sorted in my opinion, so that the animations look more convincing, and the animation and the resulting shot power match better (it's not impossible shooting like they do in FIFA08, but the results should be tap-ins and such, not blazing shots coming from a player who has a very unnatural and weird stance when he shoots). For the more powerful shots, you would need to make sure the player is in control enough to be able to execute a proper shot animation, with his legs close together and the ball close to his side as he shoots. Any deviation from this should rapidly decrease the power and accuracy available (the power doesn't come from the swinging leg as much as it comes from the supporting leg being properly placed in the ground to give anchoring).





EDIT: SUPERCANCEL

How did I forget that one... It needs to be in the game. SO many times you have your player running on his own trying to get to a pass, even though you know it will get intercepted and you want your player to move into a defensive position instead. Your player just comes out looking like an idiot for not realizing the pass is a lost cause.
I think LT + RT already is Cancel when in control of the ball right? Just add to that LT + RT without possession is supercancel/free movement under ANY circumstance.
 
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Trance_Allstar said:
- Freekicks need to be redesigned. They seem to have gone for simplicity, but trying to condense the entire art of freekicking to a powerbar and top/backspin seems kind of offensive even.

At the very least, a separate height and power control is needed. That, combined with the top/backspin choice gives us proper choices for shooting.

For example, we could do shots (that aren't even possible in PES which has a slightly more advanced system) where you aim with low height, lots of power and backspin. The ball starts low, and then then slowly climbs as it shoots in a straight line up into the roof of the net.

For players with lesser skills in freekicking (lower FK accuracy or whatever the stat is for FIFA), the aim varies more in terms of how well the player can execute the height and aim/power you want. A poor player might shoot over even though your aim was good, etc. Also making sure that lesser players FK heights are more influenced by the power you add gives another dimension to the system (not only do you need to judge the height needed, you also need to aim slightly lower than you want since giving the shot power power might tend to give the ball more height.

Also really hard shots are harder to curl properly (higher chance of curling off somewhere you didn't want).

The angle of approach could be varied since the way you approach the ball means alot to how easy different types of curls are achieved.


This system, for uniformity and consistency, should be applied to corners aswell (since this system basically allows for all the trajectories and choices you'd have in real life, it's all you need really).

For goalkicks they might not be necessary, since goalkicks generally are struck the same way over and over (but if you desaign a good intuitive system, then definitely apply it to all setplay situations, for the sake of consistency and a realistic approach).


Making sure that there is inherent, everpresent, built-in inaccuracy properly proportioned for lesser and more skilled players (per the "FK Acc stat") will also prevent the AI from scoring constantly as is the trend I've seen when me or my brother is playing. Even very skilled players like Ronaldinho and Juninho need to have some inaccuracy and inconsistency, even if your aim and such are dead on.





- More predictable powers for analog passing/shooting. Not necessarily a powerbar for them all, but having more "linear" and quicker power-fillup for passing etc might make them easier to control. Again, the PC version seems to have this down much better than the Next-Gen interation.
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Certainly agree that free-kicks and corners are a big disappointement in FIFA08. They're so one-dimensional. Agree with your ideas for improved shot control.

I would also like to have far more options in terms of player movement at any dead-ball situation. Whilst waiting to kick the ball, the whole pad is virtually free so the buttons could be used for all sorts of things like calling one or both of your CBs forward at a corner or free-kick, and importantly, triggering runs of players in and around the box, or even just around the pitch at goal-kicks. There are plenty of free buttons so they could probably allow at least 4 buttons to trigger some sort of run by 4 different players. I want to see some movement from my guys. It really gets on my nerves at free-kicks when the game is basically set up to force you to shoot.

Incidently, has anyone ever managed top blast the ball at the wall and see it squirm through a gap, possibly deflecting and wrong-footing the keeper? Happens a lot in real life, never seen it happen in FIFA or PES.

I also want to be able to control goal-kicks, both from the ground and from the keepers hands. It seems the power is always decided for you (scripted) and is always exactly the same. The direction seems to be either straight down the pitch in the vague direction of one of your players or at about 45 degree out of play for throw in. What about all the other angles, distances, elevations, kick-power? Why isn't this wholly manual?

It's like some kind of unwritten rule for all computer football games that all dead-balls must be the same in every game. All goals kicks must be the same scripted guff, all corners and free-kicks must be the same, including not being able to play a free-kicks backwards and being forced to have the behind the ball camera view. Why? It's all limited crap yet they all copy each other.

I almost agree about super-cancel although following on from my grievance above, why super-cancel? Because PES has it so FIFA must have it too? Why can't I, at all times, just control the guy I'm supposed to be controlling. Why is the computer taking over control? There should be no moment at all in the match when the computer takes over control of my 1 player! Is it really so hard for EA or Konami to grasp this fundamental principle of gameplay. If I'm not controlling him, I'm not actually playing at all. It's pure script.

Also noticed this when playing 5v5 online that at goal kicks, the computer decides to make your guy run back to his "position". Why? Stop taking over control of my guy, FFS!
 
winston said:
Certainly agree that free-kicks and corners are a big disappointement in FIFA08. They're so one-dimensional. Agree with your ideas for improved shot control.

I would also like to have far more options in terms of player movement at any dead-ball situation. Whilst waiting to kick the ball, the whole pad is virtually free so the buttons could be used for all sorts of things like calling one or both of your CBs forward at a corner or free-kick, and importantly, triggering runs of players in and around the box, or even just around the pitch at goal-kicks. There are plenty of free buttons so they could probably allow at least 4 buttons to trigger some sort of run by 4 different players. I want to see some movement from my guys. It really gets on my nerves at free-kicks when the game is basically set up to force you to shoot.

Incidently, has anyone ever managed top blast the ball at the wall and see it squirm through a gap, possibly deflecting and wrong-footing the keeper? Happens a lot in real life, never seen it happen in FIFA or PES.

I also want to be able to control goal-kicks, both from the ground and from the keepers hands. It seems the power is always decided for you (scripted) and is always exactly the same. The direction seems to be either straight down the pitch in the vague direction of one of your players or at about 45 degree out of play for throw in. What about all the other angles, distances, elevations, kick-power? Why isn't this wholly manual?

It's like some kind of unwritten rule for all computer football games that all dead-balls must be the same in every game. All goals kicks must be the same scripted guff, all corners and free-kicks must be the same, including not being able to play a free-kicks backwards and being forced to have the behind the ball camera view. Why? It's all limited crap yet they all copy each other.

I almost agree about super-cancel although following on from my grievance above, why super-cancel? Because PES has it so FIFA must have it too? Why can't I, at all times, just control the guy I'm supposed to be controlling. Why is the computer taking over control? There should be no moment at all in the match when the computer takes over control of my 1 player! Is it really so hard for EA or Konami to grasp this fundamental principle of gameplay. If I'm not controlling him, I'm not actually playing at all. It's pure script.

Also noticed this when playing 5v5 online that at goal kicks, the computer decides to make your guy run back to his "position". Why? Stop taking over control of my guy, FFS!
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Wall deflections (PES5 after all ;)): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5UJCvgyqW8

I definitely agree about the movement, the best would be total control all the time. No AI assisting when running after passes, and such.
The only problem is that the "AI-guidance" when passing to a player makes sure that your player gets the ball. If you run completely on your own it might be very hard to judge where you need to run or you might just pass the ball enough for the player to not actually trap the ball.

However, I think that the advantage of completely free movement is awesome. That way, if playing for example 5v5 or such, not only do you need to time and strike the through ball perfectly, the receiving player (if human controlled) also needs to actually be ready to run in the appropriate direction.


As for your points about dead-ball situations, I also agree. There is too much rigid thinking in the design of the games we are currently playing. They think too much in a "game" mindset when designing stuff.

FIFA has been the worst over the years. The "Corner jostle" feature they had a few years back was awful. The idea is good, but I just don't like that kind of rigid programming. The player was always jostling at every corner.

ISS98 had a great system though. You used a button to switch between "behind-the-ball" view and the normal view. You had 360 aiming in all situations. Height, power, manual curl. It was too easy without any inherent inaccuracy to make it realistic, but the basics were awesome. As I think you know. ;)
ISS even had a rudimentary set-play movements button, where if you pressed a button, the players in and around the box would rotate in 3 set patterns (not editable). But it was great to get some movement. For example one set had the players positioned further out, and if you pressed the button just before you struck the ball, the players would blitz the penalty area. It was also very useful, and still so simle and easy to use.


Still, design-wise, my big goal would be a ball-strike system that is completely neutral. The different buttons used now, only decide the general style for the shaping of the foot and such.
:x: for broadside strike, :square for laces, type strike (shooting primarily, but also hard passes), :circle: for more boot under the ball for higher more soaring longballs (also usable for shots).
Analog stick angle decides desired height on the strike (or some sort of gauge you activate as you strike the ball). Different for different strikes, laces srikes generally cannot achieve the same height as longpass strikes etc.
I am also a fan of aftertouch curling (ISS style). It could probably be implemented in a way where it is fairly transparent (obviously it is physically wrong but in this case it is a real-life functionality that is so important for me). Or some other system for curling.

That way, you would have one system in normal play, and when a setplay arises, you just do the same things again (height by gauge or stick tilt, etc).


It might require lots of work to be made very nice, but you could also make it bare-bones and still it would be very good (for example, you could make the foot-shaping when :circle:-passing change to reflect different height-aims with stick tilt, but you could also just use a standard animation and just change the trajectory of the strike. It won't look quiiite as convincing, but the gameplay impact would be the same (and it is certainly something that PES could implement for the next release, if they were aspiring to give you as much control of the players intentions as possible).




I also hate the CPU control during goalkicks etc. Like I am not smart enough to realize that my player will be 20m offside if I don't run back... :/
 
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Coopz said:
That clip you posted dosnt happen in next gen Fifa
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hargreaves4 said:
That video is from FIFA RTFWC 06... that game was pretty rubbish.
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Ohh, you guys were talking to me. Hehe. :)

Bad example then, my bad. Still, what I described does happen alot in FIFA. Players shaping themselves oddly and such, and shooting a ball hard with the tip of their boot in a broadside fashion. It can be improved. :)
 
I can honestly say they have got the shaping of shots and stuff to look very very realistic this year
 
Trance_Allstar said:
Still, design-wise, my big goal would be a ball-strike system that is completely neutral. The different buttons used now, only decide the general style for the shaping of the foot and such.
:x: for broadside strike, :square: for laces, type strike (shooting primarily, but also hard passes), :circle: for more boot under the ball for higher more soaring longballs (also usable for shots).
Analog stick angle decides desired height on the strike (or some sort of gauge you activate as you strike the ball). Different for different strikes, laces srikes generally cannot achieve the same height as longpass strikes etc.
I am also a fan of aftertouch curling (ISS style). It could probably be implemented in a way where it is fairly transparent (obviously it is physically wrong but in this case it is a real-life functionality that is so important for me). Or some other system for curling.

That way, you would have one system in normal play, and when a setplay arises, you just do the same things again (height by gauge or stick tilt, etc).
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Yeah, it would be nice to think that EA are thinking along those lines and given they've already implemented a sort of manual passing/shooting system, let's hope they continue to innovate (well, be as innovate as some games were 10 years ago :roll:).

Another one I'd like added to tiktiktik's long list (if it's not already there) is 360 degree player movement. The 8 directions is really annoying at times.

Is full 360 really so hard? Even 16 directions would be a big improvement.
 
Oh, and perhaps most important about the AI, get real with the endless long dribbles they go on with immaculate skill and balance. Utterly laughable!
 
Coopz said:
I can honestly say they have got the shaping of shots and stuff to look very very realistic this year
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I don't own the game and haven't found some examples on youtube, so I can't really further my case so to speak.

I generally think it is good, but there are some situations where I think it lacks, especially since shooting alot with the last-gen version which has a much nicer feel to the animation and how it interacts with the ball (to me). :)
 
winston said:
Oh, and perhaps most important about the AI, get real with the endless long dribbles they go on with immaculate skill and balance. Utterly laughable!
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Improved with the new update, AI plays much more human which means they dribble less, lose the ball more, give the ball away more......
 
Placebo said:
Improved with the new update, AI plays much more human which means they dribble less, lose the ball more, give the ball away more......
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Unfortunately, they most definitely do not dribble less on the PS3 update. And it's also disappointing to see every AI player who starts a dribble have exactly the same skills, Ronaldinho or Booby Bawsack, they're all identical when in the cpu hands. I play at lost of League 2 matches and even the AI defenders go on implausible mazy runs with impeccable touch and skill.

At times, it's also literally impossible to get the ball off the other than resorting to slickle tackle and concede the foul. You can have 2 or 3 defenders jostling him and stand tackling him, but he magically comes out the other side with the ball, only to be confronted by 2 or 3 more players, but he magically comes out with the ball, you get in a slide tackle and win the ball, but it deflects (in pure PES style) at a bizarre angle straight to a cpu team-mate and the whole process starts again. Playing against Barcelona, I would find this slightly far-fetched, but playing against Accrington Stanley, come on EA!

Also, the AI players sprint around the pitch at top speed all the time yet they never tire. I've heard some advice that you should use the sprint button sparingly and but all that happesn is the cpu guys just sprint right by you. They're clearly all in sprint mode yet come the last 10 minutes, they're still sprinting. How about some AI fatigue?

Last night's session was one of the worst I've had with the game. All the old negative feelings I got with PES resurfaced with FIFA. It didn't help that I couldn't get a connection to the EA servers to enjoy some 5v5. I think I'll take a week off from playing the game and hope my enthusiasm replenishes.
 
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All thats happened on the PS3 update is that Professional Difficulty seems to play like Semi Pro! I had a thriller with Liverpool in a Cup Quarter final yesterday which ended 3-3 After Extra Time and went to Pens.. I won 5-4 :)
 
What I can think of now..

Online
- When pressing start online, it should not pause until next time the ball is out of play, like PES. It is VERY annoying when people pause in the middle of an attack etc.

Control
- Keepers should aim at the feet of the players and not their chest when throwing it to them. If I'd do that my teammates would have killed me by now.
- Also with manual passing setting, you should be free to aim freely.
- Goalkicks etc should have powerbars.
 
Ill update this tommorow as I have to sort through some of the suggestions, Im looking at you trance :D

Think it will then be pretty close to "complete". Most of us who play the game regulary seem to have added their two cents.
 
tiktiktiktik said:
Ill update this tommorow as I have to sort through some of the suggestions, Im looking at you trance :D

Think it will then be pretty close to "complete". Most of us who play the game regulary seem to have added their two cents.
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Sorry, I can't help myself. I always feel I need to write 3 more paragraphs just to slightly clarify something further. ;)

Nice thread though. At this point FIFA is closer to what I want in a football game than PES, and with EA maybe actually having people who listen to fans... Well, let's just say the odds for improvements look alot better for EA than KONAMI.
 
Response time.
Stadiums.
Deeper crowd response mode.
More comprehensive cup and league victory sequences.

what NOT to do:

don't take away ANY feature; only build upon the current feature set.
 
It's completely trivial but the pre-kick-off routine looks really stupid.

At start of match, when the players run out onto the pitch, they shouldn't be doing their warm ups in a line. They would have done all that stuff 20 minutes before kick-off. They should run to their positions, perhaps do some individual stretches, jogging on spot, defenders maybe fire a few last shots in at the keeper whilst the captains should meet at centre circle with the ref to toss coin.

Also, when the team line-ups are displayed and then the names move to show the team formation, that screen finishes too quickly.
 
winston said:
It's completely trivial but the pre-kick-off routine looks really stupid.

At start of match, when the players run out onto the pitch, they shouldn't be doing their warm ups in a line. They would have done all that stuff 20 minutes before kick-off. They should run to their positions, perhaps do some individual stretches, jogging on spot, defenders maybe fire a few last shots in at the keeper whilst the captains should meet at centre circle with the ref to toss coin.

Also, when the team line-ups are displayed and then the names move to show the team formation, that screen finishes too quickly.
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This botheres me in both FIFA and PES I guess. Why don't the commentators, in all their name-knowing glory, take time to name each player in the teams, like they did in PES2 on the PS1 even, where your players would be lined up for the national anthem before kickoff, and the camera panned across all the players and their names were called out by the commentator.
 
Updated again, ive tried to compress trance's comments to bulletpoints. Maybe we could add his post as an appendix for freekick improvement.
 
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