ENGLAND thread
- Thread starter YoungGun_UK
- Start date
Baxter
International
- 23 August 2011
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Don't worry guys, there are still Spearing, Sterling, Shelvey and Flanagan in stand-by list.
Don't worry guys, there are still Spearing, Sterling, Shelvey and Flanagan in stand-by list.
Steve-O21
Championship
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Ferdinand is the only questionable one. I, personally, would have taken him over Terry. The other two made it very clear that they did not want to be substitutes, hence why they're sitting at home.
Bottom Line: I would much rather take inexperienced players to a tournament who are willing to fight for a place in the team and simultaneously push the rest of the squad to become better rather than taking experienced players who believe their Gods' gift to football and who demand a place in the starting 11.
Ferdinand is the only questionable one. I, personally, would have taken him over Terry. The other two made it very clear that they did not want to be substitutes, hence why they're sitting at home.
Bottom Line: I would much rather take inexperienced players to a tournament who are willing to fight for a place in the team and simultaneously push the rest of the squad to become better rather than taking experienced players who believe their Gods' gift to football and who demand a place in the starting 11.
- Thread starter
- #154
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Wenger can't look at the horror
Evra's reaction to the news of Martin Kelly added to the squad along with being given a 4 match ban for whatever reason
Wenger can't look at the horror
Evra's reaction to the news of Martin Kelly added to the squad along with being given a 4 match ban for whatever reason
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Anton Ferdinand <--> John Terry. Rio Ferdinand is his brother.
Somebody talked about chemistry: maybe the chemistry between both Rio and Terry is perturbated by the racism thing between Anton and Terry?
While i was flabbergasted that he called up Kelly, i do understand why he didn't call up Ferdinand. On top of that Rio hasn't had his best season. Both Ferdinand and Man Utd might be very happy that he wasn't called up. This might be the beginning of a good season for Ferdinand.
There was also a discussion about the omission of Carrick. I heard in Football Weekly, that this had nothing to see with Hodgson, they (strangely) talked about a decision made by the FA before Hodgson was even appointed. Whatever happened: Hodgson is not to blam for that one.
Anton Ferdinand <--> John Terry. Rio Ferdinand is his brother.
Somebody talked about chemistry: maybe the chemistry between both Rio and Terry is perturbated by the racism thing between Anton and Terry?
While i was flabbergasted that he called up Kelly, i do understand why he didn't call up Ferdinand. On top of that Rio hasn't had his best season. Both Ferdinand and Man Utd might be very happy that he wasn't called up. This might be the beginning of a good season for Ferdinand.
There was also a discussion about the omission of Carrick. I heard in Football Weekly, that this had nothing to see with Hodgson, they (strangely) talked about a decision made by the FA before Hodgson was even appointed. Whatever happened: Hodgson is not to blam for that one.
Last edited:
Zeem
Wonder Boy
- 15 July 2006
- AC Milan
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Ferdinand is furious gerd. On his twitter account he simply wrote "what reasons?!" and his agent attacked the FA. Say what you want, but this is unfair treatment to him because of the Terry situation. Must be hard for Ferdinand to deal with at this point of his career.
Ferdinand is furious gerd. On his twitter account he simply wrote "what reasons?!" and his agent attacked the FA. Say what you want, but this is unfair treatment to him because of the Terry situation. Must be hard for Ferdinand to deal with at this point of his career.
BobbyBox
WING NUT!
- 10 October 2003
- Arsenal
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
I think the basis lies with the Ferdinand - Terry issue, but there are alos football arguments to not select Ferdinand. It will be Ferdinand's last tournament, possibly his last few games for England and his manager has said he can't play two games in a week. Meanwhile Kelly can play at both CB and RB and looks like a very good prospect. It's unlikely he would start anyway, the same goes for Ferdinand with Terry. So would you rather have a young defender who can do a good job in two positions or an old CB who probably wouldn't perform well coming on at the end of a match. And with Jakielka already called up there are enough CB's already.
Whether Kelly should be the one to get the call up in another matter mind, but really these players are mostly 3rd choice anyway.
And a Hodgson football reason, Ferdinand actually prefers to pass the ball instead of hoof it!
I think the basis lies with the Ferdinand - Terry issue, but there are alos football arguments to not select Ferdinand. It will be Ferdinand's last tournament, possibly his last few games for England and his manager has said he can't play two games in a week. Meanwhile Kelly can play at both CB and RB and looks like a very good prospect. It's unlikely he would start anyway, the same goes for Ferdinand with Terry. So would you rather have a young defender who can do a good job in two positions or an old CB who probably wouldn't perform well coming on at the end of a match. And with Jakielka already called up there are enough CB's already.
Whether Kelly should be the one to get the call up in another matter mind, but really these players are mostly 3rd choice anyway.
And a Hodgson football reason, Ferdinand actually prefers to pass the ball instead of hoof it!
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
You forget Ashley Cole. If you would make a World team, Asley Cole would be the only English player in the starting eleven (and i don't forget Rooney, Rooney is world class, but both Messi and Ronaldo play at his position and if you consider him a CF then Falcao and Drogba are better and perhaps i forgot other strikers).
Ashley Cole is a prick, but he is the best English defender by a very long mile.
Besides that: Ferdinand just had a very average season.
You forget Ashley Cole. If you would make a World team, Asley Cole would be the only English player in the starting eleven (and i don't forget Rooney, Rooney is world class, but both Messi and Ronaldo play at his position and if you consider him a CF then Falcao and Drogba are better and perhaps i forgot other strikers).
Ashley Cole is a prick, but he is the best English defender by a very long mile.
Besides that: Ferdinand just had a very average season.
Rantboy
International
- 27 December 2002
- Fluminense FC / Arsenal
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
I'm not surprised Rio was left out. Let's face it, he should be in the first list to begin with. This "footballing reasons" nonsense is just an excuse not to call him because of the animosity between Terry and him.
Before when England had Cahill, alongside Jagielka and Lescott, this was better covered up. But now with Cahill out, this is exposed wide open for everybody to see. If you put football first and want England to have better chances, Ferdinand should be there.
Right from the start the FA chose John Terry's side. Removing his captaincy was just a smoke screen, because all the rest they did was to benefit Terry. Suarez got an 8 match ASAP for his racism case, while the powers that be refused to convict Terry before the Euros to avoid making the crisis worse, scheduling the judgement for after the Euros (I'm not even sure he will be punished anymore).
They clearly chose Terry, but I don't see Ferdinand inferior to him in any way. Terry has been a nerve wreck, all I can remember from his season are slips against Arsenal and Liverpool, racism abuse and that stupidity against Barcelona where he, as captain, let his entire team down.
I've said this before here: Terry has made more enemies than his footballing abilities can afford. He is there with a favour, there must be a strong lobby for him IMO.
What bothers me the most is the message that comes with it: English football is rewarding the cunts, crooks and thugs. Whatever Terry does, he gets away with it:
Screw your friends' girlfriends;
Kick people off the ball and get sent off in a Champions League semi;
Racially abuse whoever you want.
In the end, the party that was innocent (Ferdinand) pays for it.
I feel sorry for Ferdinand.
I'm not surprised Rio was left out. Let's face it, he should be in the first list to begin with. This "footballing reasons" nonsense is just an excuse not to call him because of the animosity between Terry and him.
Before when England had Cahill, alongside Jagielka and Lescott, this was better covered up. But now with Cahill out, this is exposed wide open for everybody to see. If you put football first and want England to have better chances, Ferdinand should be there.
Right from the start the FA chose John Terry's side. Removing his captaincy was just a smoke screen, because all the rest they did was to benefit Terry. Suarez got an 8 match ASAP for his racism case, while the powers that be refused to convict Terry before the Euros to avoid making the crisis worse, scheduling the judgement for after the Euros (I'm not even sure he will be punished anymore).
They clearly chose Terry, but I don't see Ferdinand inferior to him in any way. Terry has been a nerve wreck, all I can remember from his season are slips against Arsenal and Liverpool, racism abuse and that stupidity against Barcelona where he, as captain, let his entire team down.
I've said this before here: Terry has made more enemies than his footballing abilities can afford. He is there with a favour, there must be a strong lobby for him IMO.
What bothers me the most is the message that comes with it: English football is rewarding the cunts, crooks and thugs. Whatever Terry does, he gets away with it:
Screw your friends' girlfriends;
Kick people off the ball and get sent off in a Champions League semi;
Racially abuse whoever you want.
In the end, the party that was innocent (Ferdinand) pays for it.
I feel sorry for Ferdinand.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
The reason given for not banning Terry is that it is a legal case and once the verdict is known the FA will act on it. If they had banned him it could prejudice the legal case. That wasn't the case with Suarez as nothing was reported to the police. So it remained "in-house".
The reason given for not banning Terry is that it is a legal case and once the verdict is known the FA will act on it. If they had banned him it could prejudice the legal case. That wasn't the case with Suarez as nothing was reported to the police. So it remained "in-house".
Rantboy
International
- 27 December 2002
- Fluminense FC / Arsenal
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks for clearing this up.
I still stand by my opinion though. Terry has been a disappointment as a leader, a human being and even as a player. His team played most of the season with the likes of Ivanovic, David Luiz and Cahill, excellent defence and still finished 6th in the League. Whereas Man United finished 2nd without their best defender Vidic, and with great contribution from Ferdinand, who has been very influential for young talents as Phil Jones and Smalling.
Even if Terry was a true gentleman, I'd pick Ferdinand over him. Even if he's old, that's not an issue - this is not a long tournament. Plus it was his last tournament for England, this is just plain disrespectful.
Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks for clearing this up.
I still stand by my opinion though. Terry has been a disappointment as a leader, a human being and even as a player. His team played most of the season with the likes of Ivanovic, David Luiz and Cahill, excellent defence and still finished 6th in the League. Whereas Man United finished 2nd without their best defender Vidic, and with great contribution from Ferdinand, who has been very influential for young talents as Phil Jones and Smalling.
Even if Terry was a true gentleman, I'd pick Ferdinand over him. Even if he's old, that's not an issue - this is not a long tournament. Plus it was his last tournament for England, this is just plain disrespectful.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Have i missed something? IMO Rio had a disastrous season.
Terry is a big scumbag and a prick. I don't like him as a player and as a person.
But i honestly don't see why the FA should prefer Ferdinand over Terry (or the opposite).
Anyway, judged by the matches against Belgium and Norway, the defense is the strongest part of the team...and Jagielka is a fine player. While this is an injustice towards Ferdinand (it certainly is), at the moment i honestly don't see the problem for the team.
Have i missed something? IMO Rio had a disastrous season.
Terry is a big scumbag and a prick. I don't like him as a player and as a person.
But i honestly don't see why the FA should prefer Ferdinand over Terry (or the opposite).
Anyway, judged by the matches against Belgium and Norway, the defense is the strongest part of the team...and Jagielka is a fine player. While this is an injustice towards Ferdinand (it certainly is), at the moment i honestly don't see the problem for the team.
matherto
20 times 20 times Man United
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Rio had an average season but Terry was terrible for pretty much all of it.
Once Rio got past his injuries he was very good for the last few months as well. Terry is long since past it.
If you were gonna take one then you'd take Rio, especially given the disruption that Terry causes wherever he goes for England.
It does seem that Hodgson hasn't spoken to anyone about their status in the squad, he's not spoken to Rio and it looks like he hasn't been arsed to speak to Carrick or Scholes. All three should be starters.
Similarly I'd honestly love to know what Micah Richards has done to the FA.
Rio had an average season but Terry was terrible for pretty much all of it.
Once Rio got past his injuries he was very good for the last few months as well. Terry is long since past it.
If you were gonna take one then you'd take Rio, especially given the disruption that Terry causes wherever he goes for England.
It does seem that Hodgson hasn't spoken to anyone about their status in the squad, he's not spoken to Rio and it looks like he hasn't been arsed to speak to Carrick or Scholes. All three should be starters.
Similarly I'd honestly love to know what Micah Richards has done to the FA.
- Thread starter
- #166
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
You don't see why the FA should prefer Rio over Terry?
Well first with footballing reasons this has been Rio's best season in probably 3 years and in all honesty he's always been the more talented defender.
but lets take that all out the equation and say Terry is a better player but Rio is definitely a player who would be going to the Euro's also, why is it that Terry who committed a crime going but the victim's family is paying for said crime?
so basically, Terry says something racist, causes tension, thus fuck off Rio your brothers been racially abused by the lion heart John Terry so you can't go.
You don't see why the FA should prefer Rio over Terry? Well first with footballing reasons this has been Rio's best season in probably 3 years and in all honesty he's always been the more talented defender.
but lets take that all out the equation and say Terry is a better player but Rio is definitely a player who would be going to the Euro's also, why is it that Terry who committed a crime going but the victim's family is paying for said crime?
so basically, Terry says something racist, causes tension, thus fuck off Rio your brothers been racially abused by the lion heart John Terry so you can't go.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Younggun: look at tik's post for the reason Terry is taken despite the racism thing.
I tend to agree that Terry is a shadow of the player he once was. I didn't see enough of Ferdinand to judge him myself, but the press and the pundits were all very negative about him (i know).
As for Carrick: like i already mentioned, in Football Weekly somebody claimed that the ommission of Carrick is something the FA decided before Hodgson got appointed.
Finally: you don't necessary have the best team by selecting the 11 best players. Nobody knows what goes on in a dressing room. I can't imagine why, but maybe Terry is more popular than Ferdinand with his fellow internationals?
Scholes is the best English player of the last 20 years and should always be in the team, but does he still wants to play for England. I remember him saying that he wanted to stop as an international, quite some time ago.
Younggun: look at tik's post for the reason Terry is taken despite the racism thing.
I tend to agree that Terry is a shadow of the player he once was. I didn't see enough of Ferdinand to judge him myself, but the press and the pundits were all very negative about him (i know).
As for Carrick: like i already mentioned, in Football Weekly somebody claimed that the ommission of Carrick is something the FA decided before Hodgson got appointed.
Finally: you don't necessary have the best team by selecting the 11 best players. Nobody knows what goes on in a dressing room. I can't imagine why, but maybe Terry is more popular than Ferdinand with his fellow internationals?
Scholes is the best English player of the last 20 years and should always be in the team, but does he still wants to play for England. I remember him saying that he wanted to stop as an international, quite some time ago.
lo zio
International
- 24 October 2005
- Palermo
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
whoever said that is an ignorant, mate. sports justice and ordinary justice are completely indipendent from each others and the results of a sport proceeding (like the decision on a ban request) has no impact whatsoever on a civil or criminal trial. that's the whole point of sports justice: it's quicker and indipendent. even civil lawsuits and criminal trials (on the same object) are indipendent from each others (to the point that they can lead to conflicting rulings), let alone a sport justice case.
just to make it even more clear, had the fa banned terry, the fa decision couldn't have been adduced in court as evidence of terry's conduct.
long story short: there would have been no prejudice whatsoever.
besides, aside from the bannning, it should be up to the coach to pick the players, not the federation. so even if terry wasn't banned, it still was the coach responsibility to pick the player he thought was more useful to his cause.
whoever said that is an ignorant, mate. sports justice and ordinary justice are completely indipendent from each others and the results of a sport proceeding (like the decision on a ban request) has no impact whatsoever on a civil or criminal trial. that's the whole point of sports justice: it's quicker and indipendent. even civil lawsuits and criminal trials (on the same object) are indipendent from each others (to the point that they can lead to conflicting rulings), let alone a sport justice case.
just to make it even more clear, had the fa banned terry, the fa decision couldn't have been adduced in court as evidence of terry's conduct.
long story short: there would have been no prejudice whatsoever.
besides, aside from the bannning, it should be up to the coach to pick the players, not the federation. so even if terry wasn't banned, it still was the coach responsibility to pick the player he thought was more useful to his cause.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Not sure Ben, with the huge amount of coverage it would get it could prejudice a potential jury, if the youtube video and the other Terry antics havent already. Either way that was the excuse given by the FA (I think) whenasked why the case didnt go infront of their disiplinary panle like the Suarez Evra one. My first instinct was that it was an easy cop out for the FA to not have to charge their captain. But Ill wait and see...
As for Carrick adn Scholes, one of them retired years ago and the other stated he didnt want to be a sub.
Not sure Ben, with the huge amount of coverage it would get it could prejudice a potential jury, if the youtube video and the other Terry antics havent already. Either way that was the excuse given by the FA (I think) whenasked why the case didnt go infront of their disiplinary panle like the Suarez Evra one. My first instinct was that it was an easy cop out for the FA to not have to charge their captain. But Ill wait and see...
As for Carrick adn Scholes, one of them retired years ago and the other stated he didnt want to be a sub.
matherto
20 times 20 times Man United
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Re: Carrick - He stated he didn't want to be a sub under Capello because he'd spent the best part of two years being called up and not played by Fabio.
Roy never spoke to him.
I couldn't believe it when Roy said 'I'd have to be convinced he's better than the players I've already got', you need to be convinced by a guy that's been an integral part in United's success since he arrived in 2006 and just had one of his best seasons at the club?
Have to be convinced that he's better than Gareth fucking Barry, James fucking Milner and Scott fucking Parker? Jesus wept Roy.
Re: Carrick - He stated he didn't want to be a sub under Capello because he'd spent the best part of two years being called up and not played by Fabio.
Roy never spoke to him.
I couldn't believe it when Roy said 'I'd have to be convinced he's better than the players I've already got', you need to be convinced by a guy that's been an integral part in United's success since he arrived in 2006 and just had one of his best seasons at the club?
Have to be convinced that he's better than Gareth fucking Barry, James fucking Milner and Scott fucking Parker? Jesus wept Roy.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Carrick wouldnt fit in a 442 though. Parker was always going to be picked, Gerrard aswell, and roy always wants to play a rigid 442.
Anyway, amusing to see all the complaints for the manager after two friendlies and two weeks in the job after hearing how he wasnt fairly treated at liverpool and should have been given more time. And England probably are a better fit in regards to playing style. Can see it going both ways atm, either the worst or he might do a greece.
Carrick wouldnt fit in a 442 though. Parker was always going to be picked, Gerrard aswell, and roy always wants to play a rigid 442.
Anyway, amusing to see all the complaints for the manager after two friendlies and two weeks in the job after hearing how he wasnt fairly treated at liverpool and should have been given more time. And England probably are a better fit in regards to playing style. Can see it going both ways atm, either the worst or he might do a greece.
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Odd statement - of those three only Carrick actually plays in a 442 with his club?
The Rio v Terry thing is just that - the FA had to pick a side and they chose Terry. The two of them were never going to play together.
Doesn't bother me in the least, it was the FA's decision. Don't blame Roy - I doubt very much he could touch that with a 10 foot barge pole.
I'd play Jagielka and Lescott together, personally. They know each other and have some traits that compliment one another. Cole on the left, Jones on the right if we're serious about defending, Johnson if we need goals. Simples. Big brave JT can be big and brave on the bench.
Odd statement - of those three only Carrick actually plays in a 442 with his club?
The Rio v Terry thing is just that - the FA had to pick a side and they chose Terry. The two of them were never going to play together.
Doesn't bother me in the least, it was the FA's decision. Don't blame Roy - I doubt very much he could touch that with a 10 foot barge pole.
I'd play Jagielka and Lescott together, personally. They know each other and have some traits that compliment one another. Cole on the left, Jones on the right if we're serious about defending, Johnson if we need goals. Simples. Big brave JT can be big and brave on the bench.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Knew i should have written it differently
What I meant is that roy plays a 442 and his first choice was always likely to be Parker and Gerrard/Lampard. Meaning Carrick was always likely to be a sub, unless more injuries happen.
Knew i should have written it differently
What I meant is that roy plays a 442 and his first choice was always likely to be Parker and Gerrard/Lampard. Meaning Carrick was always likely to be a sub, unless more injuries happen.
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
This team is a joke. What are the odds of them not getting out of the group stages? Gotta go check that.
This team is a joke. What are the odds of them not getting out of the group stages? Gotta go check that.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
From what I have seen and how hodgson sets his teams up England could be playing like the bottom ranked group / team in the competition. And what worries me is that it might work.
From what I have seen and how hodgson sets his teams up England could be playing like the bottom ranked group / team in the competition. And what worries me is that it might work.
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
It's going to a bitch to score against England, and with Carroll/ Terry/ Lescott/ Jones and Ashley Young, they're going to be dangerous at set pieces.
This tournament's Greece perhaps?
I'm looking forward to it. Embrace our crapness. Hoof at Carroll. Why not?
It's going to a bitch to score against England, and with Carroll/ Terry/ Lescott/ Jones and Ashley Young, they're going to be dangerous at set pieces.
This tournament's Greece perhaps?
I'm looking forward to it. Embrace our crapness. Hoof at Carroll. Why not?
matherto
20 times 20 times Man United
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
I really don't think it'll be that hard.
Our midfield will be overran and bypassed constantly.
Hart is gonna have to become Schmeichel/Yashin/Zoff/Shilton all at once in each game.
I really don't think it'll be that hard.
Our midfield will be overran and bypassed constantly.
Hart is gonna have to become Schmeichel/Yashin/Zoff/Shilton all at once in each game.
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
Not sure, how good are the other teams at attacking and continually pressing? France maybe, but I cant see either Ukraine or Sweden being able to offer Barca-esque pressure. While I can imagine England being able to score atleast once a match.
Not sure, how good are the other teams at attacking and continually pressing? France maybe, but I cant see either Ukraine or Sweden being able to offer Barca-esque pressure. While I can imagine England being able to score atleast once a match.
BobbyBox
WING NUT!
- 10 October 2003
- Arsenal
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
I can see the team playing better (Results wise) than our previous teams of underperformers. just because they are all not the best, doesn't mean much, they could be a better team. Our other teams we had really good players, but they didn't play together well.
I am not looking forward to our football, but I don't think we will be a disaster.
We will see, the biggest thing going against the team, is that they haven't all played together for a long period.
Lets see anyway
I can see the team playing better (Results wise) than our previous teams of underperformers. just because they are all not the best, doesn't mean much, they could be a better team. Our other teams we had really good players, but they didn't play together well.
I am not looking forward to our football, but I don't think we will be a disaster.
We will see, the biggest thing going against the team, is that they haven't all played together for a long period.
Lets see anyway
gerd
Retired Footballer
Re: England Thread - Euro 2012 Squad Announced
England will do better than most think here.
England will do better than most think here.