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Edits to improve the gameplay

Discussion in 'Pro Evolution Soccer' started by ono5985, 26 October 2009.

  1. ono5985

    ono5985 Championship

    22 October 2009
    (for the PS3)

    Hi i'm new here. Basically i was a life long PES fan until Fifa09 came out. Loved that game so i bought Fifa10 but the amount of editing it required to make the game enjoyable was a bit of a joke. So i sacked it off and bought PES10.

    Initial thoughts are good. It's enjoyable but there are a few problems (which i've listed below)with the gameplay which can hopefully be altered with a few tweaks to player attributes...

    Problems

    • The game is too fast - the ball travels too fast/players run too fast.
    • There's an overwhelming clumsiness to the game
    • There is still a slight delay when pressing a button.
    • Passes don't seem to go to the intended recipient


    Whilst the game is capable of producing brilliant moments i found a lot of the time i was left being slightly frustrated. Anyway i felt the same with Fifa10 so i decided to do a few edits which dramatically improved the game. The problem was, editing took too long, whereas with PES it's much quicker.

    What editing have i done then?
    Basically all i have done is the same as i did for Fifa10.

    I've lowered top speed and acceleration by 20 points and i've lowered short pass speed by 10-15 points.

    Results

    Surprise surprise (not really) it's improved the gameplay no end. Just like it did with Fifa. However, on a slower pace PES10 plays much, much better than Fifa10 does.

    What test have i done?

    I tried lowering passing by 30 points (this is what i did with Fifa) but i found with PES that it resulted in short passes bouncing around a lot. It stopped the game from flowing as players were constantly trying to get the ball under control because of the excessive bouncing (which was weird). So basically i decided to just lower short passing speed by 10-15 depending on the player.

    Combined with the reduced player speed, this resulted in the most impressive gameplay i've probably ever seen from a football sim. Everything is more measured, the slight button delay doesn't matter as players don't cover ground as quickly, Passing feels perfect and has a higher success rate (in the sense that it goes to the correct player rather than a different team-mate). The clumsy feel to the game seems to have almost disappeared.

    I actually feel genuinely excited about PES again so over so i'm going to tweak everyone's attributes. Firstly i'm going to wait til i get a final option file before i continue with the edits, but once i do them i will be putting the file on here for download.

    In the meantime i seriously recommend somebody give this a shot. Just edit 2 teams. It will literally take 5 minutes, and basically just see what you think. Please leave feedback in this thread along with any friendly advice that i can implement into the edit.

    :)
     
    Last edited: 26 October 2009
  2. Lami

    Lami Niche Football Staff

    28 May 2007
    Sydney
    Man Utd, Vecchia Signora
    Thanks for taking your time to share this with us Ono. I would love to do this lowering stats stuff as I have done it last year and it took a hell of a lot of time from me doing it for all teams and it did improve the gameplay. I only wish Konami adds a global editor. Its so simple. 'Decrease top speed stats by 10 for all players' for example, and voila.
     
  3. I did some editing on the game last night and was blown away by the results.

    I did a bit more with the stats and created teams that really want to beat you that have good response and passing and slowed down the ping pong passing.

    The result was amazing and couldnt stop playing the game

    I have only done it for a few teamsso far as I was testing it, but will have a version out soon. It won't have all the teams edited as it uses the WENB patch and its not complete yet

    Try increasing teamwork, tenacity and aggression as well and you get smarted better passing and moving teams that want to win
     
  4. Lami

    Lami Niche Football Staff

    28 May 2007
    Sydney
    Man Utd, Vecchia Signora
    Oh man I can't wait for that one. Too lazy to be doing this all over again tbh.
     
  5. ono5985

    ono5985 Championship

    22 October 2009
    That's a good idea, i will try that tonight.

    I'm also waiting for the same patch so there is no point in starting the edits yet, although i really want to!

    I found it just made the game so playable. It got rid of all the clumsiness and jerkiness of the game.

    Any ideas what can be done to alter how players turn on the ball. Some of the lesser abilitied (if that's a word) players tend to do this weird 4 or 5 point turn that takes forever...
     
  6. ono5985

    ono5985 Championship

    22 October 2009
    How long did it take you mate?

    I reckon i'd have to invest about 10 hours into the editing...although if you say it takes longer i will have to mentally prepare myself.Lol.
     
  7. I did every player in the game last year and it took about 3 hours per league once I knew what I was doing.

    It's very similar this year in what needs changes, but probably smaller changes.

    If you want the players to turn better and respond better, you improve the balance, response and agility. You will only really notice clumsiness or un-responsiveness on players with these stats below about 76. I would only up these by 2 or so on players that need it or you start to loose the individualality of each player.

    If you change this on a lot of players on a team, the game may seem to get faster as the respond better. You might want to slow this by reducing the short passing speed of players on that team to balance the game speed.

    Teamwork, aggression and tenacity will govern how a team plays that you are not controlling. If you have these in the 80's for all players on a team, they will be hard to beat, try harder to win, give you less time on the ball and even mark your players better. I played games between Italy, England, Brazil and Argentina on Top Player yesterday and after a while and changing my tactics, I was able to dominate each game to the point it lost its fun. By changing these stats the games felt realistic and like it was a world cup game with every tackle a fight

    Try playing a team and then changing the Teamwork by 10, aggression by 5 and tenacity by 5 and then replay them
     
  8. ono5985

    ono5985 Championship

    22 October 2009
    Thanks for all that. I'll give them a try. How good would a global editor be?Lol. It would save so much time.
     
  9. It would be, but this way you end up with a better game as stat changes aren't blindly applied to all players.

    If you made them changes to players like Gerrard, he would end up being ridiculous.

    If you take the smaller teams, a lot of them will have teamwork in the 60's so will need bigger stat changes.

    If I get a chance to edit France, Spain, Germany, Holland and Portugal tonight, I might put my option file online for people to try
     
  10. Aqua

    Aqua Banned

    26 September 2009
    Roma
    for pc there are a few projects there like matrix or this other one i think "realism"

    just look in the pes 2010 editing area and look for inspiration
     
  11. mjsmith2k

    mjsmith2k Come on you Reds!

    5 November 2005
    Nottingham
    Forest, Bulls, Patriots
    Are you on the PS3 Chimps?
     
  12. Dryzer

    Dryzer Banned

    3 October 2009
    Liverpool
    Liverpool FC
    Thats a big ask to improve gameplay!
     
  13. Yes
     
  14. Its not that bad. If I had known last year how long it would have taken, I wouldnt have done it as getting the changes right took the longest. Once you know the change to make, its not that bad.

    This year, with knowing stuff from last year, its much faster. I ended up with the best football game I have ever played last year after a few nights of editing and I played it until this summer.

    If you look at the amount of time people spend editing turf and creating stadiums or boots, some time improving the biggest thing about the game seems worth it.

    The hardest thing is getting my girlfriend to watch tv in another room whilst I edit the game.
     
  15. ono5985

    ono5985 Championship

    22 October 2009
    Lol i see where you're coming from with that. i'm thinking about buying mine The Sims or something. Just to keep her quiet for a few hours!

    I tried your suggested edits last night. I liked what i saw. Arsenal attacked me properly. Everything was varied about the game. I loved it. Just waiting on the WENB option file (with the bundesliga) then i'm ready to edit.
     
  16. I edited France, Holland and Germany last night.

    France and Holland were easy, they just needed their teamwork, tenacity and aggresion raised so most players were in the lower to mid 80's and then increased the movement stats for a few of the players and made them a bit better going forward.

    Germany, for some reason had shocking stats and took a bit more editing to turn them into a hard team to beat.

    Its disheartening that these changes will be lost when a new version of the WENB option file is out, but it should take long to re-edit them

    I might do a few more international teams and release a demo option file of these changes as playing an international tournament or world cup with these in would entertaining and show how the game can be improved
     
  17. fideco

    fideco League 1

    15 October 2005
    Italy
    Udinese Calcio (1896)
    Chimps
    What level of difficulty do you play?
     
  18. Jhemre

    Jhemre 20:45

    16 February 2006
    Ali Sami Yen Hell
    Galatasaray
    good idea, but its very difficult to do on ps3...
     
  19. Isslander

    Isslander The Modest Legend

    3 August 2003
    Iceland
    Liverpool
    Ono, are you editing on PS3? I'm very interested in these changes and will be following your option file.
     
  20. Jhemre

    Jhemre 20:45

    16 February 2006
    Ali Sami Yen Hell
    Galatasaray
    i think there should be more fouls and injuries in game, but ,it's not possible to be done by us, is it?
     
  21. curdstar

    curdstar Premiership

    19 September 2006
    PES4 Partick Thistle
    Loving that someone has tried this out too! I tried similar last night before seeing this thread.

    Here is what I did...

    ...Especially those that find the game too fast. I have the PS3 version, but it should have the same effect on 360 and probably PC versions of the game.

    This probably should be in the editing section, but with a fair few voices of discontent regards the games speed and passing surfacing I thought it best to draw attention to it in the main discussion thread.

    Okay, in order to gather feedback I recommend doing this with only the starting eleven of the same two teams I have used. In this case Argentina and Spain.

    First, play a game on Professional or Top Player level with default stats. This helps give you something to measure the effect of what happens when you do the next step.

    Now, reduce the following stats of every player in each teams starting eleven :

    Top Speed - Reduce by 30pts
    Acceleration - Reduce by 30pts
    Passing Speed - Reduce by 30pts(probably best to ensure 70 is the highest for any player in each team)
    Long Passing Speed - Reduce by 30pts(Again make 70 your cap)

    *Swerve for every player increased so 70 minimum, and don't be scared to set true greats at 99.

    *Optional, but worth it!


    This takes less than 10 minutes as the game allows you to handily 'reduce by 10' by holding sqaure and tapping left(once the chosen stat is selected) for a quick 10pt reduction. So three taps and you are set, unless you take my advice and in those rare situations any players passing stat that still sits above 70 you peg it back.

    Now start the match on the same level you played before.

    Spot anything?

    Well, first of all you should see the games players are a tad, but not tremendously, slower. More importantly however, you should see that players speed is generally a little more tighter in comparison. Messi will still have an edge regards speed, but he will no longer be dramatically quicker and it tightens the game up quite considerably.

    However, here are the telling differences...

    You should see that the ball movement in the pass is slower, again not tremendously so, but it is slower and the game does not feel as ping pongy. Players who are good passers still are great passers but because the players around him have been pegged back in the speed, his slower, but still accurate passes are still effective. the game just feels that tad tighter though.

    But the biggy!....

    Suddenly, the ball appears to have more movement. It now bobbles more and kicks up off the surface. Passes are no longer magnetised to the ground in quite they way they were with the default stats. It feels freer.

    What I also noticed in the 10 games or so I played with these stat adjustments is that players are actually well equipped to control this freerer ball movement. Where before I felt the game was a little glitchy in players first touch, they show more natural ability in being able to control a pass, but better still was that if they played a pass when the ball kicks up every so slightly of the surface, or when they take a controlling touch, there pass would be lofted with a narrow, arching trajectory that still saw it able to clear players heads on occasion, but it still kept the degree of accuracy a player has when he plays it with default stats, so suddenly the game was filled with little incidental flicked passes and lay-offs all over the pitch.

    Oh, and it might just be my skill at the game, but the AI controlled Spain team were far more lethal in unpredictable in attack, with Torres and Silva standing out. I also noticed the COM was playing more ambitious passes that because of the freerer sense of movement in the ball that sees it rise off the floor, helped them reach there intended target. I have never seen so many excellent little low trajectory, perfectly weighted passes played into a channel that allow the player to catch them in all my days playing PES since PES5.

    I would appreciate if you guys could try this and offer some feedback on this. I am 99% certain that this improves the game on so many levels, with the remaing 1% of doubt being down to me being the only one who has seen it.

    The thing is, I still think the game could be tweaked further by just doing some very liberal decreases, and in some cases increases in all players stats. Heading for a start is overpowered, and when I put Torres' heading ability down to 40(half it's original setting) bullet headers were not as frequent with them infact looking a little more realistic in the balls movements.

    Shooting strength might be my next tweak. I think it needs to come down quite considerably for all players, but shot technique and accuracy could maybe be increased, in combination with increasing Goalies key stats to 90 minimum. I have already done this with Argentina and Spains Keepers.

    So anyway guys, I need feedback on this 'discovery' of mine.

    Before I leave to you, just to let you know you can easily set back the defaults for every player, by selecting them in edit mode, and pressing triangle in order to set everything back to the way it was. Takes only about five minutes.

    To save hassles, just try this with the starting elevens of both Argentina and Spain.
     
  22. 2010 - Edited gameplay file released - Beta 1

    http://www.filefront.com/14815495/Chimps2010WENBEDIT.zip/

    This uses the WENB option file as a base. If you are using this already, you only need to copy over the Edit and Options files onto your PS3. If you are not using the WENB file, copy all across.

    This contains all the strips and teams on the WENB option file. A number of international teams have been edited to improve the gameplay. I would recommend playing games between these teams to see the difference in gameplay.

    Teams edited so far are -

    Argentina, Brazil, Italy, England, Holland, Portugal, Spain, Germany and France.

    The gameplay changes were tested on Top Player setting and have been made to make the game more competative and to increase the responsiveness slightly.

    Can you let me know what you think and which teams you have tried. I have attempted to make each team play more realistically and hope others think the same.
     
  23. ono5985

    ono5985 Championship

    22 October 2009
    Chimps, can you list the edits that you've made by any chance. Cheers.

    Curdstar, i tried reducing passing speed by 30 but the bobble made it feel like i was laying on a sunday league pitch!lol.

    I'll try the increased swerve with better keepers though. Sounds like a nice idea.
     
  24. curdstar

    curdstar Premiership

    19 September 2006
    PES4 Partick Thistle
    Yeah, I have went for a reduction of 20 on the pass speed instead.

    I do think it is vital to max out swerve as best possible however.

    Chimps - I will give your OF a bash. I am a moderator on WENB and I am loving what you are trying to do here. I think that if the general opinion is that it improves gameplay, then your templates should certainly be taken note of and credited as it will change the game only for the better.

    I tried some keeper stat increases, and increased top speed and acceleration, and it unfortunately makes only a small difference in my experience.

    When you play the game with these kinds of tweaks and refinements you begin to see that an incredible football game is screaming to get out.

    A patch that fixes the keepers, adds the transitional animation and adds in some others(even if we can't get better running animations!)and irons out response issues and some other quirks in the game would bring it to life completely.

    If these tweaks are greeted with nothing but positive responses chimps, I honestly think there is no reason Konami should not be notified about there effect and release a patch that tries to refine the game like you have. Christ, if someeone who is only tinkering with stats can improve the gameplay, I would like to think Konami could do something with that information and release a thorough patch. They could even make it an optional download and advise users of what it is looking to do!

    Great work mate.
     
  25. Isslander

    Isslander The Modest Legend

    3 August 2003
    Iceland
    Liverpool
    Here comes the big question... who is going to make a side by side youtube video! Come on guys, you know you want to.
     
  26. Lami

    Lami Niche Football Staff

    28 May 2007
    Sydney
    Man Utd, Vecchia Signora
    About keepers guys, what I did last year to make them much better is I increased their GK ability and Agility. It made quite a difference and they were much harder to score against. Think I increased mentality too but can't remember. Also noticed the scorelines drop after every league game.
     
  27. Its not really a template I use as each player is changed depending on his current stat and to get them and more importantly their team playing more realistically.

    I have been editing the game since it first went to the PS2 and realised then that how all of the game plays in dependant on the stats of players and these have been mostly kept the same over the years, konami then adjusts slightly how these are interpreted in the coding with each release and this makes the subtle changes in gameplay between releases. If you change the player stats you are able to make changes like konami do each year, but define the gameplay how you want it.

    It wasn't until about PES6 that I really got this taken seriously as it really improved the game and if you look on the link below, you can see that thread had over 50,000 hits and a lot of people using the tweaked version.

    The annoying thing is the game can be so much better and it would take very little testing. Top Player isn't really that much harder and it should be difficult and enjoyable to play games on it.

    I doubt everyone will think this version how they think it should be as speed is a big factor and you will always find people who think its too fast or slow, but hopefully most will think its an improvement
     
  28. In the time that would take, you could have installed and played a few games and would have much more of an understanding of the difference in the game
     
  29. Isslander

    Isslander The Modest Legend

    3 August 2003
    Iceland
    Liverpool
    I do agree with that, thing is I am still waiting for my new PS3 to arrive and just want something to tie me over :D
     
    Last edited: 29 October 2009
  30. goalgerd

    goalgerd File Maker

    30 July 2006
    dublin, eire
    Ringsend Rovers
    chimps do you want to make a ps3 file together? me and my friend pategato are currently making one,ive a file here with all kits edited and up to date,if you did the stats we would do all the other stuff formations,missing players.teams,apps,accessories etc,think the results would be amazing

    let me know if youre into it,i could send you my file later

    link to file http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1778038#post1778038
     
    Last edited: 29 October 2009

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