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Defending is different in WE9...questions

Discussion in 'Winning Eleven' started by Han, 12 August 2005.

  1. Han

    Han Very senior member

    22 December 2001
    Holland
    After a week of playing I still am not defending well.
    In PES 4 the CPU dribbles a lot, making ik easier to tackle the opponent.
    In WE9 I sometimes need some time to be able to tackle, because the CPU passes more often. So if you approach the opponent to tackle with [​IMG] he simply passes the ball to another player!
    I find it very hard to win the ball against good passing teams, especially because my own team sits back much deeper when defending than with PES 4.
    I know you can try to put pressure with [​IMG] but that's dangerous when you do it with defenders, leaving gaps for your opponent.
    My team-setting is D-line B, Pressing B, Off side A and Counter attack B.
    Most of the time I play with Argentina.
    How do you guys try and win the ball?
     
  2. I think you press X too much..
     
  3. Han

    Han Very senior member

    22 December 2001
    Holland
    ...and what should I do instead?
     
  4. Sulph

    Sulph Goodbye...

    28 September 2003
    Just get in between the ball and the opponent!
     
  5. Obviously you should only press at the right time, so its all about timing, timing is very important
     
  6. kingpug

    kingpug Guest

    You have to spend 60 days practising on how to master taking the ball without it being a foul, get in-front of them and jog into the ball and if your lucky it wont be a fk, but you can always crunch them from behind and there is less chance of that being a foul.
     
  7. TikTikTikTikTik

    TikTikTikTikTik *****

    7 August 2004
    Liverpool
    i had the same prob when going to we8le. You have to 'mark' players now and wait for them to make either a mistake or be close enough to tackle. When you look at real football players dont go round like headless chickens running after the ball, they get in position and let the opponent pass it about n their own half and wait till they either get close, lose patients and punt it or make mistakes. Its the same in this game, when you have a player you dont go after the ball but try to stop the other opposition players being free for the pass. It takes getting used to but once you do youll be defending a lot better. The main problem is when your behind with not much time left, then you should make a tactic/stratagy to push everyone up and be very aggresive. Atleast that works for me.
     
  8. winston

    winston Champions League

    7 August 2005
    You need to press the :r1:, :l2: and :triangle: buttons simultaneously. This makes your guy go invisible, but only for 2 seconds. Whilst invisible, nip in and take the ball so that the referee can't see you and award a free-kick for "being too close" to an opposition player, which is apparently a new FIFA regualtion.

    You may also have noticed that the cpu guys will quite often push you in the back when you are clean through on goal, yet no penalty is given. This is because the cpu guys are in invisible mode so the referee doesn't ever see them do it.
     
  9. Han

    Han Very senior member

    22 December 2001
    Holland
    So there are more than one solutions for this problem :)
    Apart from winston's joke-post I have a lot to think about. What I will try to do is trying to cut-off passing options, like some of you said. Hope it helps.
    Tiktiktiktik, you talked about marking your opponent; do you really use the man-mark option or do you play the normal zone-mark? Do you use a lot of midfielders? I mean, it will be hard to cut-off passing-options when playing with 3 midfielders :shock:
     
  10. damn, why did you tell them about the invisible mode, this was one of my top secret moves, GOD DAMNT U FUCKING RUINED THE GAME
     
  11. gudiagu

    gudiagu ..:: Maradona Rubio ::..

    6 November 2002
    Denmark
    ManUtd
    why don't you just cry like a baby...

    don't blame the game, blame yourself and your crappy timing...

    and for the children don't take this seriously, i'm just kidding...

    but yeah, timing is really important, and you just get better and better with each game you play, and especially if you use a bad team against a good team... then you learn how to play proper defense...


    cheers mate,
     
  12. TikTikTikTikTik

    TikTikTikTikTik *****

    7 August 2004
    Liverpool
    i just use a normal formation( and edited 4-4-2) and leave the marking as standaard, i dont mess with that. When i said marking i meant you have to move the player you are at that moment to close possible passing 'zones/lanes'. And just continue doing that, when the opposing teams are in there half they will be able to pass it about with ease, however its when they get more into your half is when youll have more players and they will have less. Then there will be one, mayby two options for the computerplayer to pass to, when that happens you position you player into one of the zones/lanes then youll restrict the options. Carry on like that and eventually they will either try to dribble so then you can just time you tackle or you can just continue ushering them till they make a mistake or bad pass.
     
  13. Negatrev

    Negatrev League 1

    19 September 2003
    It's just you can't be lazy and hold down X all the time like in old versions. You actually have to mark the players yourself. Football is a game of offence AND defense. If you hate defending that much, play a cursor locked mode and just control a striker or something.
     
  14. Han

    Han Very senior member

    22 December 2001
    Holland
    No, I don't hate defending; I just find defending that much harder. That's why I started this topic. If I was too lazy to defend, I also would have been too lazy to open this topic for learning better defending ;)
    Do you guys using the :square: -pressing method where you let the computer press the man with the ball and use the cursor-player cut off the passing options?
     
  15. cigol

    cigol League 1

    14 August 2003
    DEFENDING IN THE GAME IS BRILLIANT.

    When a forward gets into the penalty area I NOW GENIUNELY PANIC and I really am not sure what my course of action will be! BUT, thanks to the need for a quick decision you are forced into having to take risks from time to time - and whether that's a last ditch sliding tackle, putting undue pressure on the defender or just covering your bases is a really crucial, tense, and ultimately entertaining decision to make.

    THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE AI DOES NOT HAVE TO CONTEND WITH THIS NEW DEVELPOMENT IN DEFENSIVE TACTICS. Instead they proceed as normal in shoving us off the ball. And this is where I feel cheated yet again by Konami. Such a great idea to make defending more difficult and rewarding - but to do it in their usual retarded manner that takes on step forwar, two steps back.
     
  16. Han

    Han Very senior member

    22 December 2001
    Holland
    No, I don't think Konami is cheating us.
    As always with new titles from Konami, we need to get used to things.
    I tried some of the advices from the above posts and things already get better in defence :) I am still not that good to tackle the player with the ball and cover other free attackers at the same time, but at least I am able to predict his moves and that make me able to react faster and get in front of the man were the ball is passed at 8)
     
  17. cigol

    cigol League 1

    14 August 2003
    Erm. Han. Read my post fully. I think defense for US is great, it's much more realistic. The AI however does not have this realistic defending issue - he is still in the same old PES mentality and the referee doesn't care.

    So yes, it is cheating because it makes the game more difficult for you, easier for the AI.
     
  18. ronaldoisagod

    ronaldoisagod Championship League

    10 August 2003
    CALIFORNIA, USA
    if some of you idiots honestly believe that the tackling system is same for ai and user...i wanna smoke what ur smoking!

    Everyone is having trouble defending the way the AI can...but there are ways around it. Basically, you'll find passing patterns by the second half. So super cancel a player, and kinda run them into passing lanes. This will get you turnovers every so often. I also tend to use Square @ midfield, wings, and when the ball is inside the 18yd box. Any other time, i basically try to chase'em down with attacking players (cm, om, strikers).

    Good luck man...wish me the same. I've already broken a ps2 controller over this game.
     
  19. Han

    Han Very senior member

    22 December 2001
    Holland
    So you use the :square: button to press inside your box? Doesn't that pull other defenders from attackers, leaving them uncovered?

    I wish you good luck as well ;)
     
  20. winston

    winston Champions League

    7 August 2005
    No, the defending is not brilliant. Yes, you can learn out how to play it in WE9, but that doesn't mean it's more realistic. They've basically made football as a non-contact sport so that any contact, even if you just run onto the ball in front of the attacker's foot and steal it without pressing any button, a foul is called.

    But as has been accurately pointed out, a completely different set of refereeing rules apply to the AI team, who can merrily whack you around from behind with no punishment. As a gameplay experience, that is just plain pathetic.

    All they are doing is trying to make the game harder, so resorting to lame methods. They may as well just make your goals 2 times bigger than the AI teams goals so that it makes it harder for you to score.
     
  21. Negatrev

    Negatrev League 1

    19 September 2003
    The defending IS the same for you and the CPU. It's just the CPU understands how to time and angle the challenge where you don't YET. Just because t looks like the CPU is doing the equivalent of holding down X, doesn't mean they are. You need to time your challenge right and attack from just the right angle. Most of the time the CPU used to knock me off the ball was because, as they made their challenge I'd turn to go round them, so with me off-balance on the turn, they would do a fiar shoulder-barge and win the ball. I was just running headlong into them, front back or side, if you run at them, you'll foul them. As I say time and again (broken record here), you need to change the way you defend, watch the play more carefully. You will get the way it's working now.
     
  22. winston

    winston Champions League

    7 August 2005
    Since when did tackling become this precise science where getting the exact angle and timing of attack required a degree in physics? Football is a simple game played by simple people. It is a contact sport where hard, physical challenges are a normal part of the game. WE9 fails to simualte this.
     
  23. Bitter Rivals

    Bitter Rivals International

    24 January 2005
    agh!

    either you have got mixed up with rugby or your still watching playing sunday league..

    you can't just smash someone nowadays..
     
  24. Negatrev

    Negatrev League 1

    19 September 2003
    Try playing that simple game against any decent league footballer, they'll run rings around you and you'd end up fouling them. This game isn't broken, they've made it more precise so it's more challenging. More precise is more variation. Meaning everygame won't be the same. If you prefered it before then you'll have to stick playing the older games. This is progress, KCET has always gone for a football siumulation not an arcade game. They pride themselves on making it a game that you can master with time, not 2 games and a strategy guide. This game isn't here to recreate 12-0 fifa encounters. It's also not here to recreate simple Pub League physical games, it's to emulate world class football (unless you choose to be Everton :-p ).
     
  25. Han

    Han Very senior member

    22 December 2001
    Holland
    Looks like I hear myself ;)
     
  26. TikTikTikTikTik

    TikTikTikTikTik *****

    7 August 2004
    Liverpool
    yeah the game requires more skill but also a lot of patience. I find when im inpatient and playing with pes4 style i just end up running around like a headless chicken tiring my players out. Also i havent noticed a difference in the ref's decisions for or against me and the cpu. Now when a player gets near me i tend to stick to my guns (protect the ball with the players body) as it were at let them foul me, as stated if you start turning and dribbling more often then not youll lose the ball and end up on the floor. Look at a premier match or a CL game, players dont try to dribble or turn out of a challenge, they protect the ball and wait for the foul.

    It may not be the way we, as fans of football and the game, think it should be, however this IS how the game is played nowedays and thats what they are trying to recreate.
     
    Last edited: 13 August 2005
  27. Han

    Han Very senior member

    22 December 2001
    Holland
    I found out something very interesting :)
    They have improved man-marking! In this game you have to make sure that you predict where the opponent is passing at, but when you put the attackers (and maybe also some dangerous attacking midfielders) on man marking, it cost you a lot lesser problems to win the ball because your defenders are much closer to the opponent. In most of the cases the defenders can easily come in front of the attacker if you defend well.
    For instance, if your opponent plays with 3 strikers, I use the backs and one defender for (aggressive) man-marking and the fourth defender is set at covering. That fourth defender takes care of the possible holes in defense.
    You, of course, can do the same at midfield if you want and you will win the ball much easier :)
     
  28. cigol

    cigol League 1

    14 August 2003
    I'm going to retract my statement. Defending is just something you have to get used to - it's also at the discretion of the referee how harsh he is against you. I've found that as I've played more it is becoming a lot more balanced - the problem was that I just wasn't in tune.

    I still think it's too easy for the CPU as usual, and too difficult for the human players (you won't find them so easily opened up as you).

    but still, it's a lot better than PES4. Make no mistake.
     
  29. Han

    Han Very senior member

    22 December 2001
    Holland
    I think the CPU uses man-mark as well, just try it! ;)
    You will be surprised how much easier defending is. I got two goals against me tonight (6 played at 4* ) and both goals were from direct free kicks, so that was nothing I could do about it. Don't forget to put the defenders who do NOT man-mark at covering, also the side backs.
     
  30. Interista

    Interista Il Capitano

    19 August 2003
    Bahrain
    FC Internazionale
    Take risks, tackling using the circle button is much more effective in this game, you can actually tackle evn if you're running parallel to the CPu player whereas in preivous versions even though it may seem that u tackled the ball the referee will show you a card, but this is not the case in this game.

    Keep practicing!
     

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