Confessions of a lifelong PES fan: FIFA 16 is better and here's why

Discussion in 'FIFA' started by El Pajaro, 14 July 2018.

  1. El Pajaro

    El Pajaro League 1

    14 May 2008


    World Cup 2018 Group Stage (Argentina-Russia 1-1)
    Played on FIFA 16 (15 min halfs, Legendary difficulty, Game Speed Slow)
    Shots: Argentina 9 - Russia 11
    Shots on target: Argentina: 5 - Russia 4

    Goals:
    65 Lionel Messi 1-0 (Penalty)
    90 Aleksandr Kokorin 1-1 (Assist: Oleg Shatov)

    Substitutions:
    65' Angel Di Maria - Paulo Dybala (ARG)
    66' Alexandr Samedov - Oleg Shatov (RUS)
    75' Marcos Rojo - Enzo Perez (ARG)
    78' Artem Dzyuba - Aleksandr Kokorin (RUS)
    81' Sergio Aguero - Mauro Icardi (ARG)

    Yellow Cards: '39 Oleg Kuzmin (RUS)
    Red Cards: '84 Gabriel Mercado (ARG)

    Referee: Grand Lindum (ENG)

    I always wanted a football simulation that represents the sport accurately. None of the modern football games do that as they don't have nearly enough fouls. There are 21.9 fouls per game (average) in real football. Some modern titles like PES 2018 and FIFA 18 don't practically have fouls at all. That's mockery of the sport. It's like leaving penalties out of a hockey game, crashes out of a rally game or knockouts out of a boxing game.

    I'm sure most PES/FIFA players just want to score 5 goals with Messi and Ronaldo in each game (and they would find interruptions like fouls in midfield just annoying) but for people like me who would like to see more genuine SIMULATION of the sport of football that's not ideal.

    I managed to adjust PES 2017 better with globally increasing all players' aggression to 99 and got an increase to about 7-8 fouls per game.

    Read more here: https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/l...-fifa-i-found-one-solution-for-pes2017.78353/

    But (yes there is always the BUT)... PES 2017 is just overly scripted goalfest of a game and you can't quite capture the ruggedness of real football (the way PES5 and WE9/LE did back in the day). It's practically IMPOSSIBLE to play a tight, defensive game because the scripting always force the CPU to score. I've never played a 0-0 game on PES 2017. Never. You just KNOW when the CPU gets the last minute corner kick that they ARE going to score, no matter what you do. PES 2018 is hopeless. It just doesn't have fouls at all and scores like 6-5 aren't rarely seen when you play a tournament and the scripting goes crazy.

    Then I discovered FIFA 16, 17 and 18 and I have a feeling FIFA 16 might have the best balance of them. With certain settings (more about that later) I get average 7-8 fouls and a few good free kicks per game (which is quite realistic). Passing is better on PES but shooting feels more authentic in FIFA and is "random" enough. You get penalties and free kicks. And it's the first football game since PES5 that actually has the "genuine football feel" to it. I have a feeling that FIFA 17 and 18 have less fouls than 16. I'm not saying FIFA is great, awesome, etc. but it has much less "unfairness" than PES. And it feels more like a real football game (you can't always put your finger on these).

    FOUR of my last 20 games have been 0-0 defensive affairs. Very few shots on goal for each team. It almost feels just as great as back in the day with PES5. You can't describe the genuine football atmosphere... PES5 had that and in my opinion FIFA16 with correct settings have that too. And on top of that you get occasional high scoring games too.

    Some people might think the footage is "boring" when the defense is so tight and you get so few opportunities to shoot. I understand that. But I'm seeking just more simulation feel.

    Here are the settings:
    Most came directly from FIFA Community sliders (Operation Sports) that are pretty damn good. I'm sure you guys are well aware of these.
    https://forums.operationsports.com/...ders/855682-fifa-16-os-community-sliders.html

    Skill Level: Legendary (the only way to go because World Class is too easy).
    Game Speed: LOW

    The only changes I made for these were:

    USER PASS ERROR: 30 (I find the CPU has too big advantage here)
    USER PASS SPEED: 50 (I prefer harder passes, just a personal preference)

    [​IMG]

    When you learn how to defend (FIFA 16 defensive engine might be the best ever) you can really fight to maintain your lead. CPU has some scripting and when you have a lead in the end CPU presses really hard but unlike PES that's in realistic levels on FIFA. I never feel cheated when CPU scores.

    You really, really have to work for your goals. At least I do. I've never been a great player which might be just a blessing in the sports games. And I play from the keyboard which probably makes my playing look "sloppy". Just watch the video. It was very tight game with rather good defending from both sides.

    PS: I always watch all the cutscenes and make an "event" of each of my games. Feels much more authentic that way.

    What are the the two things that I'd like to see on FIFA:

    1. Referee Strictness SLIDER (this is a no-brainer). We need more fouls.
    2. Just imagine what kind of events the penalty shootouts have been in the World Cups. They are full of suspense, thrill and emotions. Why can't we have proper, long PK spectacle with proper replays of each kicks, cutscenes from the player / coach faces and crowd reactions between the kicks? If you don't want to watch them you could skip them like all other cutscenes. Now the PK shootout lasts only a minute or two and it feels like a braindead fast-paced arcade game from the 80's.

    But overall I'm very happy with FIFA 16. In my opinion it's the best football game since PES 5. I'd be happy to hear how you guys compare it to FIFA 17 and 18. Cheers.
     
    Last edited: 14 July 2018
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  2. incas36

    incas36 Champions League

    4 November 2015
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  3. El Pajaro

    El Pajaro League 1

    14 May 2008
    Interesting. I swear, I never read any of these threads. I just bought them all FIFA 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18. And then I played for weeks.

    I played these since PES3 and there was just something special in FIFA 16... it's not always something that you can point out and say "hey... this has the best shooting or best graphics". FIFA 16 has the same "genuine feel" that PES5 did back in the day.

    The cutscenes are amazing, you get awarded penalties occasionally, you play a friggin' 0-0 defensive game occasionally, you get a 3-2 game occasionally... and it all FEELS NATURAL. When the CPU is attacking in full force you can get owned... but you also get the occasional counterattack and score against their weakened defense... it feels amazing. And the CPU comeback logic is just as balanced as it was in PES5.

    Just look at the stats of that World Cup group match video that I posted. Very even... shots on goal 5-4... because the AI defense is tough to penetrate. You don't have time around the penalty area and have shooting opportunities. It's a lot like PES5 in that sense.

    I love it. If there was just a way to increase the fouls a little bit, it'd be almost perfect game.
     
  4. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    @El Pajaro - what difficulty do you play on, out of interest?

    I was talking to @B-Man about the old games over the weekend - a while ago I fired up the old PC and installed PES 5, PES 2013, PES 2014, PES 2015, FIFA 14, FIFA 15, FIFA 16 and FIFA 17. (With the 2018 games on the PS4.)

    I've absolutely hammered all of them over about a month, and you can see the good in all of them, truly. Every game does something a bit better than the others.

    Of the PES games, PES 2013 is the best of the bunch, for me. It's fun, but tactics matter more than the modern games, and player individuality stands out. But the occasional delay in the button response is just too much to bear long-term. (It's even worse in PES 2014, and that's the only reason I really don't like it - the deep tactical system there is fantastic, and ironically, it's returning this year, but in FIFA.)

    Of the FIFA games, 16 is great - but playing against the AI, they will suddenly turn on a "gotta score" mode, and the moves they put together are ridiculous. I was playing as Newcastle against Tottenham on World Class, having a good game, and out of NOWHERE they started stringing first-time passes together that I couldn't get near. Then, wing-back to midfielder to winger (in seconds), first-time cross into the box, Kane ran onto (with my CB a mile behind him), bang. I was sat there going - hang on, this is blatant cheating. That kind of first-time laser accuracy, out of nowhere, isn't something the human player could do (not twice a game, anyway).

    That (almost) completely ruins it, for me - but 17...

    I never finished the Alex Hunter mode, and sometimes I'll dip back into it to try and get to the end. The AI pass the ball around (it gets a little boring), the freedom of movement is unparalleled, and there's something special about it, IMO.

    Yes, the AI all play the same way, but it does in 16 too, and it's much worse in 18 (the year when AI team individuality was advertised as a feature in the trailers). The AI is horrible in 18; they just smash the ball from defence to attack and hold up the ball until the midfield move further up, no matter what team they're playing as.

    The real thing I learnt after all of this is that, for me - and I didn't really expect to feel this way... None of the PES games compare to FIFA 16 and FIFA 17, IMO. It's not even close. The on-rails restrictions of PES up until the modern games is really hard to go back to, it's just not fun - yet the modern PES games, with better movement, have the worst, most boring AI for all teams (even worse than FIFA 18's).

    FIFA 16 and FIFA 17 I struggle to choose between, because when 16 hasn't flicked that "need a goal" switch, the AI is the best of the lot. But I do love some of the goals you see in 17, which I don't think you could score in 16.

    After that, it's a pretty steep drop-off point to the next game in terms of quality. PES 2013 is something entirely different, and it's a lot of fun. But I play it knowing that, in my heart of hearts, I'd be having more fun struggling in a midfield battle one match, and an open 3-2 the next, playing one of those FIFAs.

    It's a pretty sad realisation - the dark side starting to get things right. Even if 18 was a major slip-up, IMO.
     
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  5. El Pajaro

    El Pajaro League 1

    14 May 2008
    Thanks. Very interesting.

    I played PES 2013 back in the day a lot. To be honest I don't even remember the differences between other years. I lost my copy but ordered it back because I found out there is a Italy 1990 World Cup mod for it. Can't wait to test it and give the players' same aggression boost in the rosters (that I did for PES 2017). PES 2013 didn't have fouls and free kicks, either. Maybe the global roster players' aggression increase could help it too. I probably receive my copy this week.

    I play Legendary on FIFA 16. I think that's the only way to go as the AI is dumb in easier modes. And even if you find Legendary too hard you can always even things up easily with player acceleration, speed and shooting error adjustments. At least FIFA has some AI sliders. Too bad you can't increase the fouls.

    I probably suck as a player and I play from the keyboard. Haha. That might actually be a blessing. I don't have any problem with games getting too easy for me. Au contrary, I find defending pretty hard on many PES titles but very nice and realistic on FIFA (for whatever reason).

    Is there a way to edit FIFA rosters somehow? You can edit the squads but not the players' individual skills. I could try some global roster tweaks for FIFA too.
     
  6. Sami 1999

    Sami 1999 Noob

    28 June 2015
    You are right. Fifa 16 really impressed me. This game feels better than 17 and 18 [18 isn't that bad. But it doesn't feel authentic as Fifa 16].
     
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  7. El Pajaro

    El Pajaro League 1

    14 May 2008
    The thing is... FIFA's AI sliders is what makes the game so superior. There's ALWAYS a chance to even things up. Yes, sometimes when you become too good it means giving advantage to the CPU. But there are enough sliders to make it balanced.

    Let's just say the CPU wins shots (like average 19-10) but you usually win the games. That means you have an advantage in the goalkeeper and shooting error department. Just simply even things up by adjusting the slider. etc. Of course it depends what team you use and how deadly strikers you have but I'm talking generally...

    In my opinion, when the passing error slider is even, CPU has a HUGE advantage. I gave myself an advantage there to find good balance FOR ME and my playing skills. Some players are much more skilled so they probably don't need it.

    The sliders make individual game settings possible. There's no way to adjust anything on PES.

    I say if we get FIFA 16 AI and even MORE sliders, it'd be quite easy to make a fantastic football game.

    These three would improve the game tremendously:

    1. Referee strictness slider
    2. CPU scripting level (Unlike modern PES games I don't find FIFA 16 comeback logic annoying at all. It's very fair and doesn't bother me but then I've only played short tournaments)
    3. Defensive awareness slider
    4. Aggression slider for tackles
    5. Handball frequency
     
  8. Welcome to the "I'm still in Love with FIFA 16" phase!
    I've been there not long ago (https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/fifa-16-news-discussion-thread.75194/page-166#post-3264067) and I enjoy playing FIFA 16 more than I do FIFA 18 or PES 2018.
    If only EA had upgraded graphical aspects of it like player models, lighting and a few shaders here and there, FIFA 16 would be unbeatable (more fouls would be welcome too).

    I also agree with this:
    Wonderful.
    I've been begging Konami to add sliders to PES 2018 and then for PES 2019.
    In fact, I made a promise to myself that I wouldn't buy PES again until they level up with the standards a game is supposed to have these days. Specially a sports game. Sliders should be a given.

    PES 2013 is my favourite PES of all times. YES, I put it above PES 5, 6 or whichever one.
    And I think last time I re-installed it and downloaded a bunch of patches and updates with current kits, players, stadiums, etc, was about a year and half ago. I enjoyed it like always!
    The only downside for me, as someone who really pays attention to graphics, is again, how dated it looks. Same as FIFA 16.

    The more the years go by, the more I feel we've become 'YES-man' kind of gamers. We just accept. We complain a little, but we end up accepting what they do (and I include both companies here). We settle for less.

    FIFA 13, FIFA 16, PES 5, PES 6, PES 13. All these titles were so ahead of time that, I can't believe how much they slew down afterwards.
    It's like that player you witnessed when he made his debut at 19, and thought he was great. Then, the next year, he's even better. A 21, he's a beast and you can see him becoming the world's best in a few years and winning everything. BUT... all of a sudden, he starts to fade away and get lost among the rest. His growth stops and he becomes just another average player (Robinho anyone?).
     
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  9. El Pajaro

    El Pajaro League 1

    14 May 2008
    Yes indeed PES 2017 and PES 2018 are awful against the CPU. It's not that they're "too hard" or "too easy". They're just FAKE. They don't feel like real football at all... there's no atmosphere and the CPU cheating is so blatantly obvious. And it's just too easy to get into good shooting positions and score. FIFA defensive engine is much better.

    Someone put it nicely in another thread:
    "It's no way a poor game. But I feel as if Konami are trying too hard to make PES accessible. It's a more arcade-like football game than FIFA now in my opinion. Press shoot anywhere around the opponent's penalty area, regardless of what player is in possession of the ball and most of the time it will end in a goal. And this is in Superstar difficulty."

    PES6 was pretty much the same game as PES5 and WE9. It was ALWAYS inferior to both and I never understood why the modding community started making so many mods for PES6 instead of PES5 which was clearly superior. PES6 had nicer yellow card engine but worse foul engine (read: less fouls) and definitely worse shooting engine (at least imho). WE9 had the most fouls.

    FIFA 16 has everything but the correct amount of fouls. However, I 've had some important games (like World Cup semifinal) where I can get total of 11 fouls (5 for the human, 6 for the CPU) which is bearable. That should be the average. Using the "grab the jersey" button increases them and it's a good defensive asset too.

    I believe the AI increases the amount of fouls and aggression as the tournaments progress further. There should be a slider for this too because it's clearly "built-in" there.

    @Chuny: Reading that linked thread now. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: 16 July 2018
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  10. El Pajaro

    El Pajaro League 1

    14 May 2008
    It took over a decade to surpass PES5 in my eyes... but FIFA 16 actually made it. Changed my signature too... finally after 10 years in the forum. Haha.
     
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  11. Sami 1999

    Sami 1999 Noob

    28 June 2015
    Isn't it funny that old FiFA games literally had Referee strictness slider? Idk why they removed it.

    Also, FiFA 12 and 13 had changable referee [Each having their own level of strictness]. I never understand why they remove features from their games.
     
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  12. Joonloop

    Joonloop FUMA

    27 March 2018
    Northern Ireland
    Full manual, online only player here.

    I basically agree, and I enjoy seeing this point of view gain more traction among people.

    I was a die hard PES fan from PES 3 to 6.

    Then I got a next-gen console and PES was basically trash, so I stopped seriously playing footy games for a while.

    I came back to FIFA11/12 and played them, the online was stable and it was fun to play Pro Clubs with friends, but I was never that satisfied with the gameplay, especially in regards to it's unrealistic player inertia and movement, which basically negated the entire point of juking people and creating space, which is pretty darn important in the game of football..

    Then I played PES2013. It was a great base of a game. It felt like a proper modern version of the PES4/5 days, with good inertia, freedom on the pitch, etc. But there was still a lot missing - ball physics were not that advanced, player physicality was lacking, and the air-ball game andwas basically non-existent (players would barely challenge for headers for example). Plus the online servers were god awful as usual. Sadly 2013 went into the distant past for PES, and from 2014 onwards they revamped everything and went with the FOX engine and basically just made the game shit for a variety of reasons, and they've been slowly - very slowly - building upon that bad FOX engine base ever since. PES hasn't been good since then IMO.

    FIFA on the other hand, created a good next-gen base with FIFA14. It had advanced ball physics, and great body collisions. They built off that foundation and when FIFA16 released things finally came together. Proper inertia was finally in FIFA, which was huuuge for me. The goals you could score, the animations, the responsiveness, the dribbling, it was all brilliant.

    With FIFA 17 & 18 the inertia is better and more realistic than ever. If you compare 18 to 16, the players' "movement zone" has reduced a lot in 18, which gives a more grounded and foot-planted feeling to players, and it feels more realistic compared to even 16. However 18 also has overpowered defensive interceptions and body-checks, which EA have implemented to try and balance out the assisted game (because if assisted allows you to ping-pong pass everywhere, the logic is that the defense game needs to be jacked up.. which makes perfect sense unless you're a full manual players like me, in which case the dribbling aspect often feels too stifled...).

    It's for these reasons that I still think FIFA16 is the pinnacle of football games. FIFA18 is close, but not quite there. I really hope FIFA19 can get back than fluid nature of 16. I hope it is just engine problems (Frostbite) that is stifling the game right now, and that EA will iron it all out for 19. It took them a few years to get it right with Ignite engine, afterall.

    Anyway, for me the big highlights of football games are: PES5 / PES6 / PES2013 (lots of potential) / FIFA16 / FIFA18
     
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  13. El Pajaro

    El Pajaro League 1

    14 May 2008
    Just installed the Moddingway full patch with FIFA 2018 World Cup mod. And holy sh*t... this is the only football game I ever want. Haha. Such amazing work... will make a video of it soon.

    Thanks to all involved... the level of detail is just crazy.
     
    Moderator likes this.
  14. gabe.paul.logan

    gabe.paul.logan Data Collection

    7 January 2007
    Budapest
    Hungary
    Didnt much like FIFA 16 compared to 17. It was balanced but team tactics and player instrucitons did not work. All team played possession. Thankfully 17 is fixed that way completely. I think you should try that. You can set up Man City and Leicester tactics properly.
     
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  15. Topaz

    Topaz Programmer/TheAwesomeGem

    21 October 2011
    United States
    Chelsea, Spain
    Apart from the CPU AI, I agree that FIFA 16 is the best footie game this generation. However CPU AI wise, FIFA 17 is the best and is most diverse.
     
  16. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    After proclaiming my love for 17, I've just had a game during lunch and it was absolutely horrible. :LOL:

    Liverpool (Me) v (AI) Man United - their approach to the game was pretty realistic, but the issue was, on World Class / Legendary, they hold the ball up, hit the "ball shield" button, and you just can't get the ball from them. 50% of the match, you're running after the AI like they're a sibling that's just stolen a chocolate bar from you. Constantly on their tail, but never able to touch it. "Give it back!" "NO!"

    Their ball-shielding is less effective in FIFA 18, but the AI in 18 just wants to play direct football all the time, no matter the team.

    Back to 16, I guess...
     
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  17. El Pajaro

    El Pajaro League 1

    14 May 2008
    I played a few 17 games yesterday and the game is definitely harder than 16 on Legendary. But I had the same observation, it's harder in such way that it's not enjoyable. CPU passing and possession is just overboard. 16 has enough "sloppiness" and randomness in the ball possession and passing when you get the sliders correct.

    Yes, 16 CPU has those occasional "brain fart" moments but then again so do the real players.
     
  18. El Pajaro

    El Pajaro League 1

    14 May 2008
    This ModdingWay World Cup 2018 mod is amazing by the way. All the groups and lineups are 100%.

    Tried to upload some footage to YouTube but it was blocked... copyright content (FIFA). Any ideas where I could upload the video?

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Chief PESsimist Staff

    14 May 2003
    Tranmere Rovers
    The frustration that I have is that I feel too "on-rails" in 16, I can't dribble as easily as I'd like to, and occasionally there's a suspiciously long delay in button response times (i.e. when you're about to shoot).

    18 is so close to being absolutely brilliant, IMO. If only the AI wasn't so bloody desperate to get the ball to the striker 100% of the time - it plays like the kids on Ultimate Team.

    Shame you can't upload videos of that mod to YouTube, talk about overkill... Have you tried uploading it without mentioning the World Cup in the title/description?
     
    El Pajaro likes this.
  20. El Pajaro

    El Pajaro League 1

    14 May 2008
    I just got total of 11 fouls in a World Cup group stage match Iceland-Argentina (FIFA 16, Legendary, 15 min halfs). 5 for the player, 6 for the CPU. Only 1 from a late sliding tackle. Does that actually happen in FIFA 18?

    [​IMG]

    I haven't played it much but when I did, I didn't get fouls much at all. :(

    PS: I lost the game BTW. Haha. I suck.
     
    Last edited: 17 July 2018
  21. It has always struck me as odd how far editing capabilities go in FIFA 16, yet no one has never tried (at least that I know of) improving player models. That would make a hell of a difference in preventing the game from looking so dated.
    From gameplay camera, everything is fantastic. But in cutscenes/cinematics, it's very poor.
    Yeah, I care about graphics. Not as much as gameplay, but it's still important to me.
     
    loco and Dennis_87 like this.
  22. Topaz

    Topaz Programmer/TheAwesomeGem

    21 October 2011
    United States
    Chelsea, Spain
    If someone can fix the passing accuracy by crapping teams in FIFA 16 and make stats such as speed and acceleration mean more in FIFA 16 and custom tactics having an impact, I will never stop playing it.
     
    El Pajaro likes this.
  23. Matt10

    Matt10 Champions League

    5 February 2004
    Still playing 16 and loving it. Need to update my CM for youtube though. I do agree with @Topaz and others about the AI passing. There is such a fine balance of passing the ball with high % and not neutering the CPU's attack overall. As we know, FIFA is built on creating attacks by passing. They are very much ina dribble-dribble-pass mentality, so this element is one of the toughest things that FIFA 16 had. I think if elements of 17 and 18 were used, the game could be even more brilliant.

    Playing on the PC has been the absolute best, especially with the StadiumServer. Soccergaming guys are constantly updating. Here was my "Back to Basics" video that went over my set up and appreciation:

     
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  24. Lobbedball

    Lobbedball League 1

    14 July 2018
     
    Last edited: 19 July 2018
  25. Lobbedball

    Lobbedball League 1

    14 July 2018
    For me fifa 18 online i draw too many fouls,and i ve conceded too many penalties due to the nature of how hard it is to defend when playing online, u have to really time ur tackle and jussle otherwise u would find urself with no defenders with keeper in no man s land and get scored against
     
  26. Moderator

    Moderator Jetsetting Scouser

    1 December 2003
    LFC
    haha! I that that exact same thought! If they keep updating the rosters/faces...I see no reason to even get the new iterations.
     
    El Pajaro likes this.
  27. jobey

    jobey Boooo

    18 January 2007
    Manchester United
    Been looking at playing career mode and wasn't sure which game to go with, I have installed PES 2013 but I can't seem to find a latest update patch without having to go through dodgy sites and giving my anti virus a heart attack.

    From what I have seen and read Looks like I will give fifa 16 a go, take it makes no difference to buying the digital copy or should I go for a physical copy of fifa 16? Want to get all the latest update kits, gameplay patches, and correct sliders. Any advice would be much appreciated :D
     
  28. Madmac79

    Madmac79 Premiership

    11 September 2006
    Hey there!

    I don't think digital or boxed makes any difference.. I have the box edition and the game made me downloaded it all anyway from Origin so pick whatever you prefer I guess :D .

    For the updated kits/rosters/whatever go with the moddingway patch. I downloaded one before the World Cup and it was super complete and accurate.. this more recent one https://www.moddingway.com/file/192323.html should be fine.

    For gameplay I suggest you to visit the last pages of Fifa 16 thread.. too much stuff to suggest!
     
    jobey likes this.
  29. jobey

    jobey Boooo

    18 January 2007
    Manchester United

    Thanks! Downloading now, looking forward to it :D
     
    Madmac79 likes this.
  30. El Pajaro

    El Pajaro League 1

    14 May 2008

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