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Close Control is crucial

Discussion in 'Pro Evolution Soccer' started by UTD-PEARSON, 3 November 2010.

  1. UTD-PEARSON

    UTD-PEARSON League 2

    13 October 2010
    Manchester
    Manchester United
    Cant be arsed going into depth about this but I am starting to realise how crucial close control is, I used to think it was just a silly animation that helped the odd time and differed little to just running without sprint. One thing that infuriates me about this game is the cpu barging you off the ball, using close control stops this especially for players with body balance of 70 or higher. I have played this game non stop now for 2 weeks and I am learning new things all the time(the mark of a great pes game) I am also learning the scripting has been taken to a new height but the vast myriad of controls in this game at least give you the scope to overcome it. I think in many ways this game is underrated due to the controls taking so long to master in certain areas, there are so many subtleties its just such a shame konami manage to balls up player switching. For the record dribbling and manual passing is also a joy.
     
  2. sincover

    sincover Championship

    16 August 2010
  3. mfmaxpower

    mfmaxpower Champions League

    29 July 2010
    My only gripe is when comparing R2 and L2, which one is better for close dribbling in which circumstances? L2 seems to provide greater variety and increases the likelihood that you'll create space from a defender whilst R2 seems to increase your chances of retaining possession. Seriously, what exactly are the differences (I'm talking just about for dribbling, not L2's use for feints.)?

    Really wish they'd just combine the two buttons.
     
  4. klashman69

    klashman69 Fight the Power!

    28 November 2007
    I Travel.
    See, this is why i feel your witch gunt against me is not justified!

    There isn't a defined game like situation you use these in. You use your football brain to make the best of close control!

    Little things like this which don't make sense in 'game contexts' but are fine for me in a football concept!
     
  5. mfmaxpower

    mfmaxpower Champions League

    29 July 2010
    That makes absolutely no sense.
     
  6. UTD-PEARSON

    UTD-PEARSON League 2

    13 October 2010
    Manchester
    Manchester United
    Its quite hard to explain, Its something you will just know when to use its especially effective in fits and bursts. I play 360, I have sprint set to RT and close control to RB, I don't feel the need to use the L2 option. Its good when controlling the ball from a long pass especially with the technical players. It allows you to hold on to the ball and gather pace when using the sprint button in a quick burst, I often hear pes labeled as robotic which i think is so far from the truth after 2 weeks of play. Try it when changing direction in conjunction with the analog. Really surprised by the amount of ways you can use this.
     
  7. Jimmy G-Force

    Jimmy G-Force Resident PES Fanman

    13 April 2003
    Darlington
    Middlesbrough F.C.
    Exactly right, and make sure the direction you push the left stick with R2 is relevant. Without a shadow of a doubt, R2 is the most powerful button on the whole game. When you talk about retaining possession via R2, it has no peers. I use it for everything, everytime my players take a ball under control, I use this. It keeps the ball tight, and also lets you pull/drag it away from any challenge. It's relevance is due to the inertia, foot-planting and shifting of body-weight. It's all so very subtle, but that's all you need in PES 2011.
     
  8. Bailzebub

    Bailzebub ''shooto miss''

    25 October 2001
    Lancashire
    I've forgotten which version encouraged more R2 use for me, it was a late PS2 one, possibly a patched J League or Final Evolution.

    For me, in PES 2011, R2 doesn't work the same as it did previously.

    I found R2 was the be-all-and-end-all[/I ]close control in earlier games. Whereas i will get dispossessed more often using it now.

    -

    Now i believe it's best reserved for the drag-backs, the shielding and bringing the ball under control, but now, L2 alone, without trick use is the button used to turn inside defenders or step away from a challenge.

    Personally i like it this way because of how the occasional trick is now at your finger-tips also.

    -

    L2 alone as a close-control dribble influences the animations of the opposition players, you'll see them more prone to miss a block tackle and draw a foul. It will also prompt some "canned" animations on occassion from your own player, automatic feints and switches to keep possession.

    -

    Maybe R2 control matches up against an opponent for example who uses R2 jockeying as a defender, i don't know at the moment but i don't find it the dribble of choice to beat a player anymore.

    -

    All, in, i like the system, it encourages me to dribble at varying speeds and use a bit of finger dexterity while playing heh.
     
  9. klashman69

    klashman69 Fight the Power!

    28 November 2007
    I Travel.
    It does. What i ment was your not given a scripted instance for where to use it like you are given with most games.

    Just get comfortable with L2 slowing you more close control and with R2 activating a sidestep dribble.

    So whatever situation where you have defenders closing you down just use whichever you feel is most effective!

    Like is said it's your 'football brain' reacting to the situation! Taking advantage of a opponent being off balanced etc..
     
    Last edited: 4 November 2010
  10. dannyfc2

    dannyfc2 Premiership

    9 June 2009
    So is L2 actually recognised as a control then?

    It's not listed in the command list, or the manual or anything.

    But I do subconsciously use it when turning in 45 degree angles, it seems to slightly slow down the player with tighter control but I can't work out if it's all in my head. :CONFUSE:
     
  11. Jimmy G-Force

    Jimmy G-Force Resident PES Fanman

    13 April 2003
    Darlington
    Middlesbrough F.C.
    Also use R2 and a left stick direction for quick turns from a standing position. Also, it's brilliant for letting the ball run through your player. Just press R2 when the ball is approaching your player, and push the left stick in the direction you wish the ball to run through to, i.e. the direction the ball is moving towards. This subtle move is gorgeous. :)

    I only use L2 for manual passing and the Ronaldo Chop feint. R2 does everything else.
     
    Last edited: 4 November 2010
  12. ollywolly

    ollywolly Oh when the Spurs...

    24 December 2005
    Thailand
    Spurs
    I find dribbling pretty hard but rewarding when it comes off. It's kind of fun working things out by myself but I think I'd also like a definitive dribbling guide. Some people swear by L2, some by R2, I think I've even seen L1 mentioned in the past. I've also seen the CPU pull off some dribbling techniques which I haven't been able to replicate and I'd really like to know how everything is done. Its still all a bit confusing, but I think its one of the main reasons I like this game, its hard to master, well for me anyway.
     
  13. Krissy

    Krissy Non-League

    1 November 2009
    UK
    Chelsea
    Yes, any experts sharing dribbling techniques will be highly appreciated! :)

    I saw some people pull off some last minute tight turns and have no clue how they did it ..
     
  14. UTD-PEARSON

    UTD-PEARSON League 2

    13 October 2010
    Manchester
    Manchester United
    Agreed. Using it depends very much on the situation and of course the player, the more subtle you are with the analog the more your movements will vary. Easily one of the most crucial control inputs I have discovered. Its not just a case of pressing a button and the same action happening, it depends on a number of factors as you mentioned. I know people won't agree with this but this game is much more advanced than people give it credit for, you have to work to make the game run smoother using the different techniques.

    It surprises me KONAMI didn't make more of this but PES has always beeen a game that doesn't scream and shout about its best features, but without sounding patronising its something you really have to learn yourself by trial and error and using your football brain. I was skipping away from challenges last night when you usually I would be on the floor whilst the cpu counter attacks. If you haven't already please try this but be persistent as it first it looks very basic. I am also finding my manual passes are more accurate as connecting with the ball whilst its under close control defo improves the accuracy for shorter passes.
     
  15. dannyfc2

    dannyfc2 Premiership

    9 June 2009
    I'm sure this dummy used to be R1 in older versions, my mates always used to do it accidentally as he raped that sprint button.

    One of my favourite feints in PES6 was were you stopped the ball with R2, tapped L1 twice and the player would stamp his foot as if to set off in that direction, then if you moved quick enough in the opposite direction he'd do a slight body swerve. Was gutted when I discovered it isn't in this version.

    In fact, I really hope Konami bring back the older trick system next year. The Right analogy stick is really ugly and cumbersome to use, I want the stepovers back on the shoulder buttons.

    At the moment I just use normal left analogy for dribbling, with R2 for side steps and drag backs with better technical players
     
  16. mfmaxpower

    mfmaxpower Champions League

    29 July 2010
    Lol.

    Thank you everyone for proving my point: everyone seems to have a different opinion regarding the functions of L2 vs. R2 when it comes to dribbling, and this is EXACTLY my point when it comes to many people's issues with PES this year - there is too much ambiguity and inconsistency, and a reason why it's less accessible to newcomers and an unnecessary hurdle for the less hardcore players to overcome.

    Personally it's not even close to a game breaker for me, but then again I put in far more hours than average into the game so I have somewhat of a decent understanding of what works and what doesn't. But the fact that we all have played so much of this game and the most common answer to this question is "you'll just have to feel your way through" or "use your football brain" is a problem for Konami's control scheme.

    Consider: the reason for why the through pass and regular pass are both separate features and are as effective as they are is because they have different functions/applications/purposes. If we didn't know how exactly they functioned different from each other we'd have a serious problem. You can have the greatest "football brain" in the world but that doesn't count for jack if you aren't sure what inputs do what in the game. This isn't about depth, it's about confusion.

    I see no reason why L2 and R2 shouldn't be combined. R2 is specified as close control, and to be sure it's critical for mastering dribbling in PES, but L2 also appears to have some influence on dribbling as well, beyond using it for feints, so why aren't the two already combined into one button? It's neither intuitive or a good use of a limited number of input buttons.

    Like I said, this may be a small obstacle for the hardcore like us to overcome but it's an example of some of the more simple issues that turn people away from the series.
     
  17. UTD-PEARSON

    UTD-PEARSON League 2

    13 October 2010
    Manchester
    Manchester United
    Just try the RT option mate, I don't use the other so I can't comment. I find it hard enough pressing the modifier pass button and RB for slow dribble so I don't need to think about using other types of dribble. You have a point a about the controls not being intuitive although I like it this way. Its not the same action every time and depends on all sorts of factors such as the bounce of the ball and what player you are using. I don't know what you want me to explain, PES has always been this way part of the fun is you learn more by playing.
     
  18. Rob92

    Rob92 Guest

    RT dribbling can be very effective to create space when used and timed correctly, but I find that (especially when tired/not focused) it's almost a "lose possession" button more often than not...

    I think LT dribbling is a myth, a mental thing for some people, it's not in the manual or command list and my experience trying it has produced no noticeable difference to using the left stick alone.

    Usually I use the left stick only when dribbling, one move in particular is my favourite - it's only a very simple dragback and it's done by just moving the left stick diagonally backwards towards the side of the player's stronger foot. Great for evading pressuring defenders, set up so many strikes from the edge of the area with Murphy by doing this :).

    I'm making it sound complicated when anyone decent at PES and real football would use the above anyway and think nothing of it... The years of FIFA have made me appreciate the ability to beat defenders without fancy tricks or an explosive burst of pace and strength.

    Djemsav (real name = Server Djeparov) is small, weak and slow, but I can completely tear people apart with his dribbling when I'm on my game - this type of player is useless on FIFA, completely useless.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 4 November 2010
  19. mfmaxpower

    mfmaxpower Champions League

    29 July 2010
    My questioning of having separate L2/R2 buttons isn't so much about problems I'm having - I've put in enough hours I'm competent enough; in fact I find using R2 a total blast - my point is more about a) not being the most logical system to begin with; like I said i don't think you'd lose anything if you combined the two buttons while you'd free up another shoulder button for something else; and b) it's just another issue that pushes people away from PES for feeling awkward/not accessible.

    You may like it this way but I'll go out on a limb and say that most people when they play video games like it when they push a button, they sort of get the outcome they expected. When I push the pass button I kinda like it when my player passes the ball. There's really no good reason to make the controls such a mystery.

    Lumping awkward/unintuitive controls in with depth of gameplay is a mistake.
     
  20. UTD-PEARSON

    UTD-PEARSON League 2

    13 October 2010
    Manchester
    Manchester United
    Didn't mean to sound like I was trying to help you, still discovering it myself mate and I am no master with it, although I did rip apart antonio Lopez last night which caused me some arousal. Will try L2 now in training I noticed it does do something. I was hoping for a 1st touch option in PES ala fifa, but I think RB/R2 is so good its not needed now. I know this is a really simplistic response but just try it in different directions, I managed to control an air ball first time by pressing RB(depending on configuration)and then side foot volleyed past the keeper. The animation it produces depends on how the ball approaches you and the direction you move. Will look into L2
     
  21. tc811

    tc811 Resident Evo-Web Retard

    9 January 2008
    United States
    Arsenal FC
    You can take a first touch with R1 and R2.
     
  22. mfmaxpower

    mfmaxpower Champions League

    29 July 2010
    Do people play with four fingers or two fingers for the shoulder and trigger buttons.

    One of my biggest problems with PES controls is needing to us R2/R1 simultaneously - I'm not sure of another game that asks this of you, especially in tight circumstances.

    I've tried playing around with different setups for the shoulder/trigger functions but I've yet to find anything that works better than the default setup. The PS3 controller is already awkwardly small for my hands as it is.
     
  23. UTD-PEARSON

    UTD-PEARSON League 2

    13 October 2010
    Manchester
    Manchester United
    I play xbox I was talking about that, I switched sprint to RT and dont use that for taking a touch just for tapping the ball ahead of me to gain speed, I only use RB and the analog to control the ball
     
  24. tc811

    tc811 Resident Evo-Web Retard

    9 January 2008
    United States
    Arsenal FC
    You don't need to use them simultaneously, they're context sensitive. R1 is for catching the ball at speed or while it's in the air. Try doing the same thing with R2 in the same situation, and you'll see it takes much longer to control the ball. On the other hand, if the ball is staying on the ground, you can almost always use R2 to control, unless the ball is traveling at pace and you need to run onto it, you would then use R1 and move forward on the stick to control it and continue moving.

    Personally I just use one finger for either R1 or R2, depending on how I want to move the ball.
     
  25. dannyfc2

    dannyfc2 Premiership

    9 June 2009
    R1 + R2 is super cancel is it not?

    Don't think it's difficult to use...just have my index and middle fingers on the shoulder buttons and thumbs on the A, B, X, Y buttons and left analog.
     
  26. tc811

    tc811 Resident Evo-Web Retard

    9 January 2008
    United States
    Arsenal FC
    Super cancel is used while you're moving your player, so it seems pretty easy to take your fingers off the face buttons and press both together. Unless you're trying to perform a fake shot with super cancel I don't see the problem.
     
  27. romagnoli

    romagnoli Misses Retri

    7 August 2004
    I find R1+R2 easier than L2+R2 but I do have two fingers up and ready. That's probably from a long history of PES though.
     
  28. mfmaxpower

    mfmaxpower Champions League

    29 July 2010
    Unless you have your controls different from default you need to use both for super cancel as well as knock on while dribbling, if I'm not mistaken. I've been playing around with different configurations so much lately I could be confused, but I think that's correct.

    True. I struggle using two fingers up on the left hand, the right side I find much easier. Still, the size of the PS3 controllers are already small and awkward for me it's just that more uncomfortable to deal with two fingers.

    Did the PS2 controllers have two top buttons or just the one? I don't recall having simple issues like this back in the day. Maybe it was just easier when my hands were smaller, who knows. Certainly don't recall ever needing two fingers on top like now.
     
  29. romagnoli

    romagnoli Misses Retri

    7 August 2004
    The pad design has been the same in principle since the PS1. The L2 and R2 triggers have changed but I don't see how they'd make things more difficult?
     
  30. Professor Nutmeg

    Professor Nutmeg ML Fanatic

    3 July 2002
    Master League
    With LT(L2) i like to do the the trick Gazza did a lot (not sure what it's called) - roll the ball back (with one foot) then kick it forward with your other foot. Looks good, but i don't always manage it with every player.

    I often do the Ronaldo chop by accident and lose possession, or go the wrong way, lol.
     

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