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Can we please clear up the player offensive and defensive arrows

Discussion in 'Winning Eleven' started by killercam, 5 September 2005.

  1. killercam

    killercam Shady

    18 December 2003
    London
    Hi, I would greatly apreciate it if someone can tell me how the offensive and defensive arrows work.

    for example say you are playing with Manchester United and you want Paul scholes to push forward, obviously would put an arrow going forward but what is the point of being able to select two arrows (say one going forward and one going diogionally back), what would happen then would the player sometimes run forward and sometimes run back?. I mean obvioulsy you wouldn't want Paul Scholes doing this but this is just an example but someone like Michael Essien for Chelsea, I put his arrows going forward and back to get him up and down the pitch as he does in real life but he doesn't seen to do anything.

    The defensive arrows are more straight forward but just want to clear this up. If you put a defender on the longest arrow (dark blue I think) will he defend deep? and what about you're full backs if you put them on the longest arrow and at the same time have offensive arrows will he push up when attacking and then get back asap to defend deep therefore decreasing his stamina.

    Sorry if there is already a thread on this - Thanks in advance.
     
  2. kingpug

    kingpug Guest

    I ain't 100% sure but I guess a forward arrow means when you're team attack this is the way he goes, or having one going back the way means when the CPU attacks he goes this way, if you know what I mean.

    But I must admit I never understood them aswell, when does the CPU know I am attacking, I seen an option like "auto-attack" or manual, but when I have it on manual how do I make them attack?

    Yea, bigger the defensive arrows, harder they defend, although to be honest I don't notice much of a difference between any of them. I tried putting my SB's on low but it just seemed to be the same.

    I think if you want you're SB's to attack, you need to make them Wing Backs, as far as I know a WB just sits halfway up the pitch so he can defend or attack.

    As I said I ain't 100% sure, and unless Konami have told them this I can't see anyone having the answer.
     
  3. Jenzo

    Jenzo Guest

    i think you r right kingpung.
    about "when CPU knows i'm attackin\defending" issue, i suppose that IT reconize you are attacking when the ball is your possesion,and defending when CPU has got the ball, so arrows works the attacking ones when u got the ball,defending ones when u don't
     
  4. winston

    winston Champions League

    7 August 2005
    I think the attacking arrows just mean that your guy will chose one of the directions in which to make a run when you have possession. If you have set his attacking arrows to be diagonally forward and left and diagonally forward and right, neither of these are defensive, so he will choose to make a run in either direction. If you set one arrow to be back the way, he may opt to drop deep sometimes. If you set one of your SB's to have forward and back arrows, sometimes he makes runs right up the wing, other times he sits back. There's probably more chance he will break forward if you activate a side attack tactic on his side of the pitch, or even just when you have possession down his side.

    I sometimes use a sitting midfielder in front of the back 4 and set his attacking arrow to be back (towards defence). This means that even when my team are pushing right forward in attack, he sits back in a defensive midfield position.

    Use the defensive arrows for deciding how hard each guy tries to get back and defend, bearing in mind that if you set everyone to rush back, they will tire more quickly.
     
  5. XXX2

    XXX2 Guest

    If you set tow arrows like -> and <-, the play will *always* get backwards then forward, so it depends on the order, that player will never go forward and then backward, you can see there is only one order you can do if you want the player to get forward and backward, and its Backward first, then forward, in the game you cant choose which order the player should go first....

    And I think the defensive arrows are obvious to understand
     
  6. PLF

    PLF Legend

    2 August 2004
    Well Winston and Jenzo are on right track.

    It's quite a simple concept but you have to remember players dont always exactly act upon your instructions just like they dont in real life do exactly as manager wants but in general as Jenzo said.

    When you're in posession of ball, it means you're attacking therefore any forward arrows you have on your players become activated. So if you have the ball under your feet with your central midfielder and a forward arrow on your SB, most of the times (NOT ALWAYS) you'll see him make a forward run.

    And backward arrows are basically how and where you want him to be when you DONT have the ball. So a backward arrow on a striker for example will mean when you dont have posession, he'll drop deeper than other striker that doesn't have the arrow and be defending at an OMF position let's say instead of where he would normally be.

    Having said that, it's best not to give too many arrows. Trust me, by tryin to tell each player where you want him to be when attacking and when defending you'll only ruin balance of your team and means nobody holds their own position. It means they're always running around and when you're defending instead of your DMF being in front of back 4 to stop any throughballs, he might be close to your CB's as a 5th CB if you give him high defence and backward arrow instead of being in own position. Again same with going forward, you dont want to have ball under your CM's feet and see everyone's already in the box because everyone has forward arrows. It's best to let players decide what to do and usually only have 2-3 arrows on 2-3 players this way you get them to make runs you want at same time your team is balanced and game is also more realistic and not just end-to-end stuff.
     
  7. Artist

    Artist Guest

    Right, but I don´t really agree with "And backward arrows are basically how and where you want him to be when you DONT have the ball."

    The attacking arrows get activated when you have the possession of the ball... If you put a backward arrow and a forward arrow in your SB, then when you have the ball, SB will run forward if your attack level is high (orange/red). If your attack level is low (blue/green), then the player will move backwards as you told him that. If your attack level is set to normal (yellow) I´ve noticed the player will randomly move forward or backward.

    When you put 2 attacking arrows like Diagonal forward left and forward (example), the player will run forward to one of the directions you assigned when your team have the ball. And how we know that the player will run forward or diagonal forward left? Is simple... If there is already a player in front of him, then he will choose diagonal forward left. If there is already a player in that direction and no players in front of him, then he will move forward to take the empty space. If there are players in both directions, than your player will not make the runs you wanted him to make. Try this making a tactic with a LWF and a LMF at the same time... put forward arrows in your LMF.. you will notice that your lmf will go to the center of the pitch.. he will defend the line but he will never go forward on the wing as you already have a LWF.

    That´s my point of view. I´m a football tactics addict, and I´ve tried many tactics and many formation settings since PES 3.. almost every day I make a new tactic, trying to find the more realistic one.. so I think I´m right in what I say. That´s my opinion.
     
  8. kingpug

    kingpug Guest

    What I think about the backward arrow is this:

    When you attack, you put the backward arrow on the DMF for example so he stays back while the rest attack, because if you never had this then everyone with the arrow would attack. I think this is so you can cover the SB's when they attack up the pitch, thats what I think it is anyway.

    And I think attacking is displayed on the nameplate, like when it hits red then you are considered attacking so anyone with a forward arrow is going to attack.
     
  9. benjo

    benjo Guest

    Hi,

    First time i begin to understand something to tactics and strategy settings ; i like 4-4-2 but i don't know which settings choose for my ML team ; if you have more advices i'm ok (i like side attacks).

    thx
     
  10. killercam

    killercam Shady

    18 December 2003
    London
    Hmm Interesting theory - so who do you play with then, what arrows do you give them. If you play with Real Madrid who do you give arrows to because on pes 4 the computer default gave a long defensive arrow to Raul and he would always drop back. Personally from now on I'm only going to use a backwards attacking arrow for my dmf so he doesn't run forward.

    1 more thing if your arrows are set to go up and down (arrows pointed towards the sides of the pitches) what happens then, do they just alternatively run to the side of the pitch if no one is in the way
     
    Last edited: 6 September 2005
  11. Dazzy

    Dazzy Guest

    I think i have come up with an answer for your question. The reason that you have 8 arrows for the attack arrows is because when your player has the ball, when your on the attack, your supporting player / players that you have assigned with the arrows will support your player with the ball in one of the eight directions. So if you have an arrow that is forward ( -> ) the suporting player will be in front of your player with the ball. If the arrow is behind ( <- ) then the supporting player will be behind the player with the ball. and the arrows up and down then the supporting player will be at he's side. I think by now you can work out the diagonal arrows. (forward and up then the supporting player will be on the left and forward of the player with the ball) Remember though sometimes this does not work for long as the supporting player will not go out of position for too long unless he is near the goal. There are other factors to take in to account but this is that main reason for the attacking arrows.
     
  12. omimiga

    omimiga Conference

    Are u sure about this??
     
  13. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool

    This makes sense. I was wondering why when playing Evra at LB for my ML Sociedad team, he would run into the middle, as bakero was already in front of him. I'm guessing if you want full backs for example to overlap properly, you do a diagonal arrow to the touchline. I will experiment.

    Konami should really be more descriptive in the manual, they've got the attitude to suggest its common sense, which its clearly not. Its a fine art. And even the piggyback guide just brushes off the arrows. But covers most of the other stuff

    The guide does mention the fact that on the highest attack level (Red) player disregard their instructions and just bomb foward with or without arrows. And defensive arrows have no effect when on all out defence (blue)
     
  14. ctruppi

    ctruppi Conference

    26 March 2003
    USA
    Napoli
    The arrows are more "zones of play" you wish the player to concentrate on. Each player w/o arrows has a certain area that he covers. This is affected by your attack levels or any tactic (right side attack, zone press, etc), but generally stays within the shape of your selected formation. The arrows simply extend this zone in any direction where they point so that a player is not necessarily keeping a formation shape as he is attacking an area you have asked him to. So if you have a SM and give him staight forward and straight back arrows he will "aggressively" push up and back into these zones depending on the situation, locaztion of the ball and in-game tactics you've selected. Also important is the players "attack" and "defense" ratings. If your side MF has a 80 attack rating, he will push up more often and deeper than a SM with a 70 attack rating (the same goes for defense ratings as a better defender will push back more effectively).

    PLF is correct in that the arrows will distort your formation shape and may cause gaps in your team. I like to experiment with these and use them often. However, I find that they work a bit better when I have watched play unfold and then adjust to situations. Like if I'm having some success down the right side, I may put a forward arrow on my SM to get him to push even deeper forward.
     
  15. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    surely the aggresion stat has more of an effect that the attack stat
     
  16. jiwa

    jiwa The BEautiful Game

    31 May 2005
    Malaysia
    I agree with what PLF and Artist said. In my experience thse are definitely closest to whats happening. But like plf said, less is better in my opinion. Also noted that SB with high Attack will always move forward regardless of arrows. I usually only use arrows to get people cut in. I.e (one CF wide by default), and arrows cutting in.

    Cheers.
     
  17. Sunrise

    Sunrise Guest

    Or Konami could just release a guide on their bloody arrows...
     
  18. Observer_

    Observer_ Conference

    23 August 2004
    I can't believe they don't even bother to have an english version of all these guides!
     
  19. Zygalski

    Zygalski Ninja Samurai

    2 February 2003
    London, UK
    England
    They're so racist.
     
  20. embraceuk1

    embraceuk1 Original Member Since 2001

    30 December 2001
    Indiana USA (Scottish)
    Nottingham Forest
    I have the pro evolution 5 strategy guide
     
  21. Zygalski

    Zygalski Ninja Samurai

    2 February 2003
    London, UK
    England
    Care to share the secrets with us?
     
  22. PetrovLFC

    PetrovLFC Raul!

    13 March 2005
    NW London
    Liverpool
    if its the piggyback guide, it does NOTHING to explain arrows
     
  23. Zygalski

    Zygalski Ninja Samurai

    2 February 2003
    London, UK
    England
    He's talking about a different guide. I think.
     
  24. Observer_

    Observer_ Conference

    23 August 2004
    I have the piggyback. It is not bad, but it doesn't say much about the arrows (not that I am so much concerned about arrows anyway).

    I think the above post refers to a Jepanese giude.I checked out the link and they were more than one guide in Japanese.

    I wonder if there are PES5/WE9 guides in English other than than the piggyback's?
     

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