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Brasil Thread

Discussion in 'National Teams' started by ss4_goku, 10 June 2014.

  1. ss4_goku

    ss4_goku Premiership

    26 May 2004
    Hong Kong / Toronto
    Man Utd
    It doesn't feel right that we're talking about a World Cup without Brasil!

    I know we have many South American members here and a few from Brasil as well. How's the press and people feeling?? I'm a ravid Brasil supporter and want them to win on their home soil, but while on paper they do seem to be favourites, I think the pressure will get to them and crush them. The original plan for these youngsters were to peak at the 2018 World Cup (as the exiles from 2010 were forgotten and they needed a "fresh" start instead, thus Robinho, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Luis Fabiano, Pato et al were never really used or considered), and it would've helped them relieve some of the pressure off. But with winning the Confederations Cup unexpectedly last year, it has given all the spot light back on le selecao and with these new expectations, I'm afraid they'll fail and all be exiled once more.

    What do you guys think? I see in the prediction thread, many think that they will win, but will they?
     
  2. Rantboy

    Rantboy International

    27 December 2002
    Fluminense FC / Arsenal
    I couldn't be bothered creating a thread about Brazil in here :P

    Well, I am in Brazil now and there is a lot of anxiety for the beginning of the tournament, but the excitement for the National Team is the same as usual.

    There are many people who are against the World Cup here, but the idea grew into some of them and many ended up getting excited too. After all, there's no use on protesting and going on demonstrations against it now, when they had 7 years to do so.

    I'm a bit disgruntled with the Brazilian NT and how it can get mixed with politics. The current government and the total lack of planning and organisation for the event have been ruining it for me a bit.
    Brazil has a chance to win it, of course, but if it happens I'm afraid this will start a wave of optimism and it might influence the outcome of the elections in October.
    So, if Brazil fails to win it, there's a silver lining IMO.

    Speaking strictly football now, I think Neymar has been built up to such a stature, that the fall might be of epic proportions. As talented as he is, I don't think he's ready to deliver what the nation expects from him.

    Psychologically, there's nothing that suggests he is ready. He played alongside 2 or 3 of the very best players in the world (at Barcelona) this season and failed to win any piece of silverware. His impact on big matches is doubtful. I'm sure there will come a tough knockout fixture for Brazil where Neymar will be marked out of the game and 1 or 2 more experienced players will have to step up.

    Our defence is more suspect than we like to think - only Thiago Silva is a world class player there IMO. Dani Alves is past his best and both him and Marcelo are defensive liabilities. David Luiz is unpredictable. He can have a perfect match or a nightmare. But he has cult status here in Brazil since that save in the confederations cup final.
    Our goalkeeper plays for a Canadian club. Enough said.

    On paper, this team looks very suspect and I really think it could exit the competition in the last 16, if we face someone of the calibre of Spain or Holland.

    What is most exciting about this, is the sheer unpredictability for Brazil. They do have a chance, if they turn up hungry and put in the ideal performances. Playing on home soil can be a huge boost, but when you talk about a football nation like Brazil, it is the biggest pressure a team will have ever faced.
    Could go either way and I'm seriously not gonna be bothered if they fail. Maybe that will make me enjoy the World Cup the most.
     
  3. sauce

    sauce Warriors

    20 September 2005
    Chatbox, Brazil
    Cruzeiro
    I'm brazilian too, but I don't really care or have a solid opinion about us.

    The thing with brazil nt is that we have a feeling the federation influence even football decisions, and they are totally corrupt.

    Our generation is more club-driven. There are also player-driven fans, people that love Neymar and David Luiz. David Luiz is sorta of a celebrity now, every ad on tv has him.

    It can all change depending on the performance on the first couple of games, if we win and play good football it can grow on us a lot, its been like this on recent world cups.
     
  4. ss4_goku

    ss4_goku Premiership

    26 May 2004
    Hong Kong / Toronto
    Man Utd
    It is sad when a sport and politics get mixed together.

    Hopefully it will be a fun tournament for all the Brasillians.
     
  5. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    I think sauce and rentboy are way too pessimistic.
    Brazil are the big favourites of the tournament. An early exit would be a catastrophe for the organisation and for FIFA and so will be very unlikely.
    Brazil are by far the most popular national team in the world and this helps them in a key moments.
    Of course Brazil has deserved this status by their splendid results and their fantastic football. You can't argue with the results, but the fantstic football stopped in Spain 1982. I was fond of that great team but they didn't win the world cup and this changed Brazilian football. From then on the result became more and more important wich often resulted in dire football.

    I'm pretty sure Brazil will reach the final. The worst case scenario is a loss in the final...Everything les than that would be an enormous shocker...is the team that good ? I'm not sure. I'm convinced Neymar will explode in this tournament. And along the way the selecao will get some help from one referee or two...

    It will be hard to convince people that i have nothing against Brazil and the Brazilians (i really like rentboy for example), but i hope they don't win this World Cup. I eve nthionk that if they win the World Cup that would be catastrophe for the ordinary Brazilian. People will be over the moon and nothing will change in the country... An early exit might be the best thing that can happen for the Brazilians and a nightmare for the government...but that is very, very unlikely.

    Never the less: i sincerely hope the Brazilian people enjoy this World Cup.
     
  6. Rantboy

    Rantboy International

    27 December 2002
    Fluminense FC / Arsenal
    Cheers Gerd.
    I think we're more or less realistic about the Brazil NT. Neymar could explode... or implode. It could go either way with our star player or the whole team.
    Neymar has shown glimpses of being unstable at key moments, and as I said, he didn't win anything with Barcelona (a stronger team in many areas) where he was the newcomer, a sideshow man to Messi, Iniesta and Xavi. Now it's different though. He will be performing at the biggest stage, in a team where he is the main star and the pressure of playing this World Cup in Brazil will be unprecedented for him and players like Oscar, William, etc.

    So I think they could either bottle it, or show a lot of guts and play at their best. It's unpredictable because they never performed at this level. Spain did it and won 4 years ago with this current generation. But most of this Brazil team are new to the World Cup.

    I hope they can play well, really with a light spirit and relieved of the huge weight on their shoulders.

    I agree on the bit about the negative side of a Brazil triumph. Football is so big here, that it might influence even the outcome of elections and it may put a lid on that mindset of protesting and demanding better conditions. To me, these are priorities, not a World Cup win.

    As for the "death" of the arty Brazil football, 1982 was certainly stellar and a joy to watch. But I think it didn't quite die there. Brazil 1986 was excellent to watch as a team, the difference being that many star players from 1982 weren't there.
    From then on, I agree that the teams became more result driven and cynical, Parreira and Scolari (the successful ones off the bunch) being the biggest examples of it. That Dunga team from 2010 was quite alright though, very cohesive, result driven but still with an admirable attacking edge and directness. At that time I remember Dunga using a Brazil "B" team and beating Argentina's main team 3-0 in the Copa America final. That was the pinnacle of Dunga's era. Too bad they went out too early in the WC2010.

    This is the World Cup where I think I'll be the most casual about the Brazil team, funnily enough, the tournament that happens right here.

    As a matter of fact, I'm seriously rooting for Belgium to do well. At the biggest stage they're an unknown quantity too, but somehow I think pressure won't get to them.
    I'm tipping Belgium and Côte d'Evoire to do very well, and I really think one of these 'underdogs' winning the trophy would be great for football.
     
  7. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    This isn't the Belgium thread, but imho most people seriously overestimate our national team.
    We have an error prone defense and we don't score enough goals....enough said ?

    2016 and 2018 might be our years, not 2014.
     
  8. Damjan

    Damjan World Cup Winner

    16 July 2011
    Arsenal|Juventus|ASSE
    Also I think there's lack of depth upfront for Belgium, Lukaku is the only real striker they have. Origi isn't a centre forward. I was surpised Vossen wasn't called up.
     
  9. gerd

    gerd Retired Footballer

    8 January 2002
    Over the moon
    KRC Genk, Spurs
    He had bad season. Genk were terrible the sesecond half of the season. Least point of all the clubs in the Jupiler League. Something must have happened there. Until decembre they looked contenders for the title and then they lost almost every match...

    Vossen is a natural goal scorer, but had a bad season and plays best in a 4-4-2, not 4-3-3.
     
  10. sauce

    sauce Warriors

    20 September 2005
    Chatbox, Brazil
    Cruzeiro
    You guys don't really believe this do you?

    While Brazil still full of idiots and alienated people, most of us don't fall for that winning shit anymore.

    Also all that data about money used for building the world cup structure is exaggerated by the media, I've seen so many people saying stuff they don't really know where the data came from.

    It goes a bit deeper than blaming the government for spending money, the major problem sometimes is the partnership they do to build those stadiums/transport stations/airports/etc is supposed to have return to the own government, and this is where we the citizens should have our eyes/rage focused on. Cause most of those partnerships are illegal, or at least unethical, cause they do with their known companies, meaning they will most likely do it for their own benefits. We still have to care even after the world cup is over, whether we win or not.

    Just the fact that people search or sit down to discuss stuff, even when they have no idea what they are talking about is already a major win for our future.
    I'm worried with the media though, they will manipulate opinions like they always do, and this time they are doing it hard. I keep telling the people I know to keep their eyes open.

    But right now its all about the football.

    And Gerd, its not that I'm pessimistic, its that really I don't care about the national team, last full game I saw was the confederations cup finals. After a full europe season a lot has changed, we saw players take a step up, others taking a step down, but Big Phil has not really changed anything that much. I know a lot of brazilians that are like this, they only watch important competitions, that's why the first game is important, its the impression that can buy the brazilians or not.
     
  11. ZeroTheHero

    ZeroTheHero Banned

    20 September 2013
    Sweden
    Borussia Dortmund
    I wish both Brazil and Argentina good luck in this WC. Having looked over all the WC squads I feel that there are no squads without some kind of obvious hole or weakness this time around. The Brazil squad is particularly weird from my perspective but I'll admit that's mainly due to lack of knowledge about a few players. Jõ has never struck me as a fantastic player, I don't know what Bernard offers and I'm likewise curious about what Fred can do in a WC. There are a lot of famous names in the squad, a lot of players on the latter stage of their careers, maybe the experienced players will step up to the plate.

    As long as I see some creole football from either of the South American teams, I'll be happy really.
     
  12. lo zio

    lo zio International

    24 October 2005
    Palermo
    :))
    i'm sure u get this a lot, but i gotta say, u're a really smart guy, sauce (and if only u had picked a different nickname for yourself when u joined this forum, this last statement wouldn't sound so ridiculous :P ).

    i'm no expert in brasilian stuff, but from what i've seen on tv last summer and from what i read on the papers, brasilian people don't strike me as the kind of people whose attention can be diverted so easily.
     
  13. Rantboy

    Rantboy International

    27 December 2002
    Fluminense FC / Arsenal
    Sauce, one thing life has to teach us all is: never doubt the human stupidity.
    I do think that the current government's chances are increased if Brazil wins the World Cup at home, and the ensuing wave of optimism.

    Unfortunately this could overshadow the fact that there's been an awful lot of corruption in the 'making' of this World Cup.
    If Brazil loses though, its people will wake up in a hell of a hangover in July to find out that only the usual suspects gained something from this event.
    Just to mention an example, there's the constructor company Odebrecht who has close ties to this quasi-bolivarian government ruling Brazil right now, making absurd profits. If you guys feel curious about it, take a look at this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...er-odebrecht-emerges-as-world-cup-winner.html

    If Brazil fails on the pitch, people would be more critical about all that, and as to why Lula had to insist on building the superfluous stadiums in Manaus and Cuiabá, plus the outrageous cost of the stadium in Brasilia.

    Remember, we are talking about people who are easily manipulated and whose minds are constantly numbed on reality TV, carnaval, the vulgar and the obscene. People who don't care if the country evolves and improves, as long as they're getting their panis et circencis, and of course their social benefits. These people are fickle as fuck though, and they can turn around just as easily if they're feeling down on their luck.

    That's why sometimes I feel almost tempted to root against the seleção!

    Oh, and in case you haven't noticed sauce, I'm anti-PT through and through :P
     
  14. sauce

    sauce Warriors

    20 September 2005
    Chatbox, Brazil
    Cruzeiro
    @ben: whats wrong with my nickname? Its awesome :SMUG:

    @rentboy: yea stupidity does not surprise me, and there are a lot of stupid people that are not really supposed to be.
    But talking about an election those don't have a relevant amount of votes. Lets be honest here, the real mass, the ones that will decide the election are never really into this world cup stuff anyway, this used to happen in ditadura days.

    And I totally got your anti-PT from your posts, but I think Brazil should move on these hard-ties with partidos by now. Cause again lets be honest again here, PSDB is just as awful.
    Whoever wins we must keep an eye on them, that's the lesson of the world cup, be more involved with what happens in Brasilia.
     
  15. Rantboy

    Rantboy International

    27 December 2002
    Fluminense FC / Arsenal
    I'm not saying PSDB is the answer to all our problems, but let's face it, it's time for a change. The same party (PT) in power for 12 consecutive years and it seems the country isn't getting any better. And they still have the nerve to blame the difficulties in Dilma's term on PSDB. I repeat, it's been 12 years!

    Well, anyway, this is turning into a political thread! haha
    I should stop right there.
     
  16. ss4_goku

    ss4_goku Premiership

    26 May 2004
    Hong Kong / Toronto
    Man Utd
    haha, I'm actually enjoying hearing the politics as this world cup is very political in terms of choice of cities, infrastructure, the people's riots/voices, corruption and money involved. As a foreigner who's dream is to come to Brasil to visit in the future, I really care and want to know what the country is going through and what this world cup is doing to the host nation.

    I'm really into seeing benefits and problems with host countries for major sporting events like the World Cup or Olympics. And seeing how Brazil will be having both within these 2 years, I really want to see if this will be for the better or worst for the country. Maybe a horrible World Cup can wake up the people, change the government, and use the Olympic funding to make the country better...
     
  17. YoungGun_UK

    YoungGun_UK 20 TIMES!

    12 July 2007
    UK
    Manchester United
    Yeah..errr Brazil vs Croatia anyone :SS
     
  18. ss4_goku

    ss4_goku Premiership

    26 May 2004
    Hong Kong / Toronto
    Man Utd
    Brazil 2-1! (according to PES, it was 3-1, but I highly doubt Fred will score...so, i'll make it 2-1)
     
  19. Kanouté

    Kanouté #NewEra

    26 April 2008
    I call it a draw. brazil will win the other two games to get the top spot. croatia won't win the other two.
     
  20. Rantboy

    Rantboy International

    27 December 2002
    Fluminense FC / Arsenal
    Well, there we go! The first helping hand of the tournament.
    Any doubts this world cup is paid for? :LOL:

    The only think I'm proud as a Brazilian football fan is the performance by Oscar. He was stellar tonight.

    Neymar is usually at the receiving end of some hate for his dives but I can only recall one doubtful incident with him. The elbow was bad too, but it shouldn't be a straight red unless it becomes very clear he wanted to hit the opponent. Overall he was alright, scoring when needed.

    But Fred was a real disappointment. Looked like a conference player on the ball, and then he not only dives and gets a penalty but points to the sky and thanks his God for making the ref fall for his cheating.

    Thoroughly disgusting.
    I'm not kidding, after that incident I was rooting for a Croatia goal.
     
  21. Ernesto Lee

    Ernesto Lee Mutant Atheist Player

    2 October 2007
    Rio De Janeiro
    Flamengo - HOP SUISSE!
    agree, every single word.
     
  22. ss4_goku

    ss4_goku Premiership

    26 May 2004
    Hong Kong / Toronto
    Man Utd
    I think he went to ground easily, but from the referee's standpoint, there was a hand over the sholder, and a pulling motion on his hand which, while being soft, is a foul. I think letter of the law-wise, it is a foul, but ethically, it was just poor.

    Oscar was great though...hope he can keep that going for this tournament.
     
  23. andy18cruz

    andy18cruz Sth, sth ... dark side

    29 September 2013
    Portugal
    SL Benfica
    It's not a foul. Not even in the letter of the law. Football is a contact sport. This means that every contact is allowed unless it prevents the opposition progress/movement/etc.
    There nothing in Lovren action (even the hand in the shoulder) that does that. Not by long shot even.
     
  24. fib91

    fib91 One-kit wonder

    29 December 2007
    Greece
    PAOK
    It wasn't a penalty,because while there was contact,it doesn't prevent Fred from doing anything.If we go like that,in every dead ball there should be a foul/penalty.
     
  25. ss4_goku

    ss4_goku Premiership

    26 May 2004
    Hong Kong / Toronto
    Man Utd
    Cause if you watch the replay from the referee's angle (from the left hand side of Fred, i suppose), it does look like he had the motion of pulling Fred down. That's why I could see it being a penalty. The heat of the moment, I can understand why the call was made. Was it correct, I am not a ref so I can't really say, but that's just my two cents.

    I'm not a big fan of Penalties anywayz, hopefully there'd be less and more free-flowing football.
     
  26. andy18cruz

    andy18cruz Sth, sth ... dark side

    29 September 2013
    Portugal
    SL Benfica
    I understand that the ref saw the contact. But I believe that he was predispose to call anything on that situation. Maybe was the pressure of the match, the build-up, being Brazil on their home-soil, etc. I don't believe in conspiracys. But the ref was a "homer" (if that makes sense in English). Every little Croatian player contact he blew the whistle. That is kind to be expected. But the penalty was an egregious call.
     
  27. ss4_goku

    ss4_goku Premiership

    26 May 2004
    Hong Kong / Toronto
    Man Utd
    Yeah, i suppose.

    Always sad when a game's talking point falls on the referee rather than the players.
     
  28. CroCHEF

    CroCHEF Premiership

    22 December 2010
    Croatia
    FC Bayern Munchen
    [​IMG]
     
  29. Rantboy

    Rantboy International

    27 December 2002
    Fluminense FC / Arsenal
    Ready made joke? :LOL:
    [​IMG]
     
  30. MASTER SABORIO

    MASTER SABORIO I AM PROUD TO BE A MUSLIM

    11 September 2007
    Egypt Mother Of The World
    Al Ahly the Century Club
    do you think that Brazilian and south Americans love Brazil only ?
    we love Brazil also
    for the match it not good but we can say it is the begging
    Oscar was played good
    Croatia was played good match specialy in tactics
    referee was toke wrong decision about penalty but we are happy for Brazil winning
     
    Last edited: 13 June 2014

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