Are we expecting too much from games

[gerd]

This thread could have been put in both the FIFA and the PES sections aswell, but what i want to discuss is about all games.

This forum started as forum about PES. It seems more and more people here are not satisfied any longer with that game (including me).
FIFA10 seemed a splendid alternative but i read lots of posts from people who like the gameplay but who point out that the modes are broken (and i agree with them).

I see people in threads about other anticipated games like NBA2K10 or Forza Motorsport 3 who are not satisfied.

Aren't we expecting too much from games ?
Or are these games over-hyped (cfr Manager Mode in FIFA10).
Are we easlily bored (quite a few people loved FIFA09 but were bored with the game two months later)?
Or have we played too much games (i certainly didn't).
Are we too hardcore when there is an evolution towards games aimed at casual gamers ?
Do we expect too much because the games (and the hardware) are so bloody expensive and most of the good games are launched in the same period (now) ?

Please discuss...

 

[Scutch]

Forza 3 is also picking up massive praise and high scoring reviews. In a couple of weeks, when it's released, there'll be so many folk complaining about the little niggles, what should have been done and what needs sorted for Forza 4.

Always the same. Everyone has different opinions and ideas, and if the games don't fall into the right area for them, then it will always frustrate the gamer.

 

[DagsJT]

Aren't we expecting too much from games ?
Or are these games over-hyped (cfr Manager Mode in FIFA10).
Are we easlily bored (quite a few people loved FIFA09 but were bored with the game two months later)?
Or have we played too much games (i certainly didn't).
Are we too hardcore when there is an evolution towards games aimed at casual gamers ?
Do we expect too much because the games (and the hardware) are so bloody expensive and most of the good games are launched in the same period (now) ?

Please discuss...

1) Definately. I think it's more the younger generation who are more disappointed. The older people who've been around since Commodore 64's, Spectrums, Amiga's etc generally have more patience and can appreciate games more.

2) Games have become so much more mainstream that a lot of players now read websites/magazines and are heavily influenced by the hype generated by these places. It doesn't help that games companies buy off the media to influence their p/reviews either.

3) I certainly get bored easily. Just look at my 360 achievement list and see how many games I've bothered to complete. But then I've always been like this and I'm always looking for a new buzz from a new game.

4) This goes back to generations, and it works in an opposite. I don't think playing more games works as an arguement. I've played hundreds of games but I don't think that influences my opinion of games too much. If anything, I'm possibly more able to spot a good game rather than someone who doesn't play many games and hasn't got as much experience to judge games by.

5) I think the more hardcore gamers are certainly becoming less satisfied with games these days. Games are definately being geared more towards the casual gamer as time goes on, gaming has just become that popular. The difference between your average PC gamer and your average Wii gamer will be huge.

6) Good point but I don't think it's a case of expecting "too much". If anything, I think we're having to pay so much for a game nowadays that we come to expect a certain level of quality for that price and we shouldn't have to pay for crap when we're paying £40. The market is flooded with rubbish titles, especially the Nintendo DS and those crap Imagine games, and the really good titles are being mixed in with all kinds of rubbish.

I'd have thought a lot of smaller companies would've gone bust by now but the casual gamer is still buying the rubbish and keeping them in business, which is annoying in my opinion.

But there are a number of quality titles around and when you spend £40 on a title and you're disappointed with it, you realise you spent a lot of money on something you're not happy with and could've got another game for that same large amount of money.

Hell, I remember buying C64 games for £1.99 in my local shop

 

[Shooto]

In short I think yes some people expect way too much for the £40, or £26 if you take into account the supermarket discounts, that they pay for a game.

There were some strange claims that FIFA 10 had no bugs, which is simply unattainable. All games have bugs that are yet to be discovered, and if you have 1.7 million testers in the first week then you are going to find a fair amount.

Whilst game companies can reap the rewards by providing DLC at a price, the expectation is that they will now fix bugs etc, which is something they never had to do before.

I think nowadays, an attempt at least should be made to fix major bugs in new games where possible. If you are really not that happy with the game you can always flog it on ebay and get some of your money back.

It is a shame that some folk get so irked at tiny things like a sponsors logo encroaching onto the players nipple instead of centered on the chest, sorry CD , I just dont see how things like that matter when you dont actually see that ingame anyway.

I guess what I am trying to say is for £40 what we get is pretty amazing. I can think of worse things I have spent £40 on and just shrugged my shoulders and moved on.

 

[BobbyBox]

Maybe people are expecting too much.

But recently most of the time people are frustrated, because of a developers laziness in certain areas.

PES stagnating for so many years and the engine not being changed for next gen. People get so frustrated because they know it is possible for it to be so different and the game to be brilliant.

Fifa having such brilliant gameplay (IMO in alot of areas) but then letting itself down on the small areas (That mean so much) that could easily be fixed if they tested the game more.

These are the things that frustrate me, because you know that these things are possible, but for whatever reason the developers choose not to do it?

But yeah I'm like dags, my first computer was a C64 and I spent so many hours on that machine playing so many games. Also the Amiga, Master system, gameboy, snes, n64, Plastation 2, psp and now the Xbox 360.

The graphics nowadays are spectacular when compared to the early machines. But I have never been so into games like when I was younger and I think that has much to do with me maturing. But the youngsters today have it too good and when you don't experience the lesser times (although I don't really see them as that), you can't really appreciate the great times and you take them for granted.

 

[johnny_on]

We expect alot because these games are getting so good now that they are worth moaning about. I have never e-mailed a developer over a crap game, i just take it back. I have moaned to ones that make a good game but miss a few things out or have a few bugs.

Last year i spent at least 10-15 hours a week on average on Fifa 09 and i didn't get bored of it.

What else can keep you entertained for £35 for that long?

Fifa 10 - im not sure will hold my attention for aslong but i'll get my money's worth. Not as long this year because there are no new modes. The game plays better but i hammered the modes last year and there is nothing new to do this year.

To mention others COD4 lasted about 16 months and i'd still pop it on now, driving games and GTA4 about 4-5 months.. They all provide alot more value in my opinion.

So yeah, well have a moan about things that aren't right but its because these games are worth moaning about.

 

[Radiation]

In regards to PES all I want from them is what they've already given to us. Gameplay like PES5 but with online modes and rosters updated and so on. Fifa, I'd just like them to sit down and work hard and then when they release the new title have something to actually show for it. Manager mode being a '4 year project' for example. What the hell do they have planned that will take 4 years of developing to do?

 

[jonneymendoza]

In regards to PES all I want from them is what they've already given to us. Gameplay like PES5 but with online modes and rosters updated and so on. Fifa, I'd just like them to sit down and work hard and then when they release the new title have something to actually show for it. Manager mode being a '4 year project' for example. What the hell do they have planned that will take 4 years of developing to do?

why cant they simply port or maybe hire the same dev team who made fifa manager and just plug in that game mode in fifa 11?

fifa manager wasnt has complex or brilliant has football manager but it certainly was ALOT better then what fifa 10's manager mode is?

 

[Nick Cave]

In regards to PES all I want from them is what they've already given to us. Gameplay like PES5 but with online modes and rosters updated and so on. Fifa, I'd just like them to sit down and work hard and then when they release the new title have something to actually show for it. Manager mode being a '4 year project' for example. What the hell do they have planned that will take 4 years of developing to do?

why cant they simply port or maybe hire the same dev team who made fifa manager and just plug in that game mode in fifa 11?

fifa manager wasnt has complex or brilliant has football manager but it certainly was ALOT better then what fifa 10's manager mode is?

I wish they would, how many Fifa Manager titles do they sell anyway...

 

[Review]

90% of games released every year are all hype. There's only about 1 or 2 games released in a year that are really worth your money. The one game this year is Modern Warfare 2, and next year it will be God of War 3.

 

[zeemeister]

Games are big business nowadays. It's only right to expect a good product.

 

[Radiation]

90% of games released every year are all hype. There's only about 1 or 2 games released in a year that are really worth your money. The one game this year is Modern Warfare 2, and next year it will be God of War 3.

You don't think Uncharted 2 will be worth buying then?

 

[Chris Davies]

I think we do expect too much, but then on the other hand sometimes there are no excuses for the state of some games/game modes. I think e.g. FIFA's gameplay is great and I can't really complain about that side of it, whereas lots of people can. Each to his own obviously but I don't understand it, I don't like PES 2010 but I can see the amount of work that's gone into it so I just respect that, despite my disappointment, and play other games instead.

But that said, the amount of bugs and issues and general overlooked bits really annoy me. You can say "it's a complex game now" but then other games are massively complex and don't have the same issues (if they did they'd be unplayable). IMO, it's just laziness, and I don't blame the testers because I've been there before and if you provide a list of 200 bugs, for a title that has to be shipped by a certain date, they will only fix 50% or less and you'll get the blame.

I was thinking about this topic today though funnily enough; I was playing Football Manager today and a goal went in because my defender basically didn't cover the crossing path well enough, he was too far behind, and the opposition striker managed to get a head on it. As I was cursing the defender, the text at the bottom of the screen said "Goodison (the defender) will have to take the blame for that, he missed his interception and (the opposition) made him pay".

When I read that I thought, wow, that's spot on. In FIFA, when you see Be A Pro issues - where you can hit an AMAZING cross and then be marked down for it just because the striker didn't get his head on it - you just think, why are you getting that wrong? Why are you STILL getting that wrong? There's so many things like this and it's so frustrating when other games, that perhaps you don't like as much, get them right.

---

But I know why - because producing a football game every 12 months is a bit of a nightmare and you would not BELIEVE how quickly it flies by. But not just that, when a game has as many modes as FIFA does - a ridiculous amount now - it's just not possible to put the same time and effort into them all. You'd be left with a product that's so similar to last year's game you may as well not bother with it (which let's be honest has happened before, and still happens; Tiger Woods comes to mind).

I'm sure if the producers were allowed two years to make a game they'd be much more comfortable but then A) we'd all moan at the start of the new season even knowing it was for the best, and B) the businessmen who run the games companies would never let it happen. Rutter isn't the boss and he's not the one sitting on-top of a pile of money, Peter Moore and other guys like Peter Moore are.

Guys like Rutter genuinely work their testicles off whether we want to believe it or not; it's clear enough for me to see when you see the kinds of emails shooting back and forth 24 hours a day between the guys behind the game about everything from gameplay to online stat reporting, and you see the amount of hours that everybody pours into it. It's insane and I love them for it. So, in that sense, I think we do expect too much, because they're doing a hell of a lot of work.

BUT, that doesn't excuse them for breaking Manager Mode (and I don't care what anyone says, it's broken). That's where I DON'T think we expect too much because it shouldn't be asking too much to get a product that works. Who should get the blame for that? I don't think it's the fault of the testers. Perhaps the programmers have bitten off more than they can chew for a 12-month period and they just haven't been able to fix the issues in time (everything you add, everything, will create an issue somewhere).

So the mode has massive potential - the list of things they've added is pretty impressive, if only they were all working. If they patch it and fix it, it'll be the closest thing to a 10/10 football game that I've ever played, IMO. But if not, it'll be more than a disappointment, it'll be shocking, because it simply doesn't work. They are genuinely trying to get it done though, before the big guns come downstairs and say "right everybody, next game now please".

 

[Radiation]

They better fix the broken parts of the game otherwise I won't be buying Fifa on release next year no matter how much stuff they claim to have added. I was going to hold off buying this one for a few weeks based on last years release problems and due to some big games coming soon that I want - but my brother ended up getting 2 copies so I had his spare.

 

[jonneymendoza]

They better fix the broken parts of the game otherwise I won't be buying Fifa on release next year no matter how much stuff they claim to have added. I was going to hold off buying this one for a few weeks based on last years release problems and due to some big games coming soon that I want - but my brother ended up getting 2 copies so I had his spare.

i'l certainly wait a few weeks till i get fifa 11 thats for fucking sure

 

[Review]

You don't think Uncharted 2 will be worth buying then?

Not really. There is nothing new in the game.

 

[Radiation]

Not really. There is nothing new in the game.

They've added various multiplayer games and co-op modes along with COD style exp/money, the cinema mode/green screen mode for movie editing buffs and a new single player storyline. I think there will be more 'new' stuff in Uncharted 2 than God of War 3 which is just going to be hack and slash like the first 2 ps2 games.

 

[gerd]

That's one of the things that i also think is overhyped: "innovation" in a game.
For titles like FIFA, PES and virtually all the sports games, it would indeed be better if there wasn't a yearly release. You could download a squad update for a fraction of the price of a new game. Why not keep some game modes as DLC, like for example FIFA10. Why not wait a couple of weeks and keep MM as DLC ?
But i think innovation is overhyped....i'm far from an hardcore gamer but i read a lot about games and IMHO i don't think that there are much really innovative games. Recently i can only think of two or three games: Litle Big Planet, the first person 'runners' game (can't remember the title) and maybe most of all Scribblenauts for DS...my daughter asked about this puzzle game and i offered her this game...what a great innovative game this is...it's a kiddy game...but it's wonderfull.

Last thing: of course Rutter is not to blame...just like the much maligned Seabass is not to blame...they are not the people that take the decisions...i think it's too easy to blame one person for overhyped games that can't fullfill the potential created by the hype (i hope you understand me).

 

[Carl]

The FPS running game was Mirrors Edge.

I dont think I'm expecting too much, I mean look at how stunning the games look and the 'feel' you have controlling the games is simply amazing on this current generation. I look at the games I have in my collection and bar the odd one with janky camera's, maybe an odd one with control quirks. This generation is fantastic, I really think we are in a golden era of gaming.

Some people think it was the NES or the Amiga or the Megadrive or the PS or the PS2 era, but for me, while I dont have as much time to play games as I did while younger, it's truly remarkable what can be done these days. There is the 'realism' factor, but there is also high fantasy levels of immersion in games, though alot dont like shooting aliens.

Just looking at Forza running, and the videos of GT5 and Uncharted 2 coming out simply says the machines are still being pushed, and they will only look better on the screen in front of me. Sure alot of games can come out with bugs, but many years ago games came out with bugs and there was funk all that could be done. Now we can have patches via DL which may not fix them all, but will certainly fix them all.

I also find it very hard to compare FIFA to PES now. Both games are football based, but thats about were the similarity ends, they both have unique styles, and while Gerd thinks that more modes should be offered via DLC, I think if they put it on the disc, it should be there as the product you bought, not as a trial or a taster, if you put it on the disc, it's retail and I PAID what I was asked for. I find because PES has a much smaller amount of teams in the game they can simply concentrate all their efforts on making sure those kits are right and sorting out a ML, which is different to FIFA's MM.

I love gaming and love what has happened this generation, so much so, I will be reluctant to be an early adopter of the next generation, of course that could all change if there is a must have/try game I see being touted on the next wave.

 

[Review]

They've added various multiplayer games and co-op modes along with COD style exp/money, the cinema mode/green screen mode for movie editing buffs and a new single player storyline. I think there will be more 'new' stuff in Uncharted 2 than God of War 3 which is just going to be hack and slash like the first 2 ps2 games.

meh..God of War 3 will be da shit!!!!