Advantage .. EA !

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greenmachine

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5 November 2003
Ruliweb: Would Winning Eleven 2008 be the last one for PS2?

Seabass: It won't be the last one. When PS2 was out, for 2-3 years we had PS1 versions. Just like it, we'll have more PS2 versions in the future. I think this time, it will be longer than 2-3 years.

Advantage .. EA !

You have just been given at least 4 years or more to perfect your next gen game engine.

This is sad news for PES..

There is no way Konami are going to work on two different engines for PES, so for at least the next 4 years or more the base of the game will be the PS2 engine.

There goes any real chance of getting away from 8 direction turning, stuck with old PS2 animations of feet sliding or skating. There goes any real chance for big changes in PES for at least the next 5 years.

Keep building PES for PS2 means that the game for the PS3/360 and PC will be held back by the dated PS2 game engine.

Only hope I see for a true next gem PES is for Konami to split the games and for another Konami studio to take on the PS2 version.
 
Im sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. All this bullshit talk about "next gen". You realise the only difference is lower quality models and textures right? When you produce a game you make high quality artwork/renders then downgrade them to fit the hardware. Thats all EA/Konami do to put the game on the PS2. The physics engine in PES whilst alot better than Fifa, isnt even that intensive and im sure Konami could cut it down quite easily if they wanted to to work on the PS2 cpu.
 
The demo is ok and I've no dobut the game will be to when it comes out, but its not the leap in gameplay or even animations that I had hoped for in Next Gen PES.

And the reason that PES2008 for the PC-PS3-360 is not that leap forward is because the base of the game play is of the PS2 engine.

And now Seabass has said that he will kept building the game for the PS2 for more than the 2-3years that they kept the PS1 going.

Unless they have a complete turn around the game that will come out next year for the PC-PS3-360 will still have the PS2 game engine and will have this for as long as they keep building a PS2 version.

And that means the PC-PS3_360 versions will limited to what can be done with PS2 game engine.
 
Sardukar said:
Im sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. All this bullshit talk about "next gen". You realise the only difference is lower quality models and textures right? When you produce a game you make high quality artwork/renders then downgrade them to fit the hardware. Thats all EA/Konami do to put the game on the PS2. The physics engine in PES whilst alot better than Fifa, isnt even that intensive and im sure Konami could cut it down quite easily if they wanted to to work on the PS2 cpu.
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Not just models and textures, but lighting and AI aswell.

Also after playing FIFA08 I resent anyone calling the PES physics better. All you need to see in FIFA is the ballcollisions when shooting at the goalkeeper and such. Equal I could take, but FIFA's collisions are top notch (balls gracing off bodyparts when deflected), and the player animation's alone and the way they move (and adhere to the laws of physics) are much more convincing than PES. The slower response in FIFA is partly due to the fact that you can't get the players to do something quickly if it can't be done quickly in real life.

Also, remember they can't just scale down everything and make it automatically work on the PS2. They can't just remove 50% of the AI and expect the game to work great on the PS2. They need to tailor it aswell, which takes time and resources.
 
greenmachine, the game is not a PS2 port. It is a PC port first and foremost. The animations in PES suck not because its on the PS2. An animation being good or bad has nothing to do with it being on the PS2 or PC. Tekken3 has better animations than pes and it was a PSX game. An animation is just a set of data instruction for skeletal bone positions over a set period of time. Nothing more, nothing amazing.

Also i dont rate FIFA08 physics better than PES2008, they are about the same however we are yet to see the final version of PES.
 
Trance_Allstar said:
Not just models and textures, but lighting and AI aswell.

Also after playing FIFA08 I resent anyone calling the PES physics better. All you need to see in FIFA is the ballcollisions when shooting at the goalkeeper and such. Equal I could take, but FIFA's collisions are top notch (balls gracing off bodyparts when deflected), and the player animation's alone and the way they move (and adhere to the laws of physics) are much more convincing than PES. The slower response in FIFA is partly due to the fact that you can't get the players to do something quickly if it can't be done quickly in real life.
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Click to expand...

Yeah...but FIFA is lethargic and boring after a few plays when u start to realise how scripted the gameplay is and how 'canned' the goals are....and as usual full of the whole plethora of pointless gimmicky tricks.
 
greenmachine said:
Seabass: It won't be the last one. When PS2 was out, for 2-3 years we had PS1 versions. Just like it, we'll have more PS2 versions in the future. I think this time, it will be longer than 2-3 years.
Click to expand...
OK!

then :

greenmachine said:
There is no way Konami are going to work on two different engines for PES, so for at least the next 4 years or more the base of the game will be the PS2 engine.
Click to expand...

what do you know about that?
when ps2 came out, do you really thing the work with ps1 engine and adapt for ps2....
and now we have to believe that they work on old engine...and adapt it...?

Think!!
 
now we have to believe that they work on old engine...and adapt it...?


Why is it then the "next gen versions" still have 8 direction turning old Staking animation none of the new generation of motion capture and animations. If PES2008 is built on the PS3 or PC and onto PS3/PC 360 and watered down for PS2 why do we still have these old PS2 animations and movements.

See PS2 v PS3 gameplay and motion capture animations for Basketball.Watch how the PS2 player turns in 8 directions with his feet on the ground as slides , while the PS3 player lifts and plants his feet, turn in 360 and while running in a circle leans into the run. See the awareness of the PS3 player to that of the PS2 player.

The reason the "NEXT GEN" PES2008 has these old animations and movements is because the game is still tied to the PS2 and you can#t have the game with all these new generation animations and movements built into the game for the PS3 PC and 360 and then water them down for the PS2.

You can have it the other way round build a game for the PS3/PC and 360 with OLD animations and movements and port them to the PS2, the only thing as has happened with the PS3/PC and 360 you can have more of the Old animations and can up the graphics and AI but the base of the game has to remain locked into the PS2.

As per a car, you have the old frame but you can up this with new body and paint and added extras but the base of the thing is the old framework and that is what has happened here.

We have the base framework of the PS2 8 direction movement and old motion capture and animations and a few other things, but for the NEXT GEN version they can up the graphics and AI onto this framework but can not change the base frame , because if the move to a Next Gen framework with 360 movement and new motion capture and whatever else, then they can't port that over to the PS2 because the PS2 would not be able to handle the new Framework.
 
Greenmachine, there is no such thing as a ps2 engine or ps3 engine. Offcourse they are still gonna use this engine, why would they built the engine again from the ground up..

Code is code and its not a different code on next gen, has nothing to do with next or current gen. A game engine is a game engine whether you use it on e next gen console or a current gen console.

The difference is that they can use more resources with next gen. And I have no doubt they will implement this in the next games. Like better physics, fixing the ice skating etc..
You dont need a whole new engine to just fix those things you know..

What do you think EA has done, written a whole new engine? They are STILL building from the same engine they are using for years. But they make it complexer each time. But people think EA redid the whole game because it looks different... Thats not true, they added alot of things to their current engine.

So all konami have to do is make this engine more complex by adding better motion capture, better collision detection, more complex body movements, physics, etc...

I dont think you realise that this current pes engine is really impressive, gameplay wise.. its alot deeper then ea's engine.
But they need to make the graphics engine more complex to is can handle better visuals, etc..

Also if they would rewrite a new engine for next gen it would take years to accomplish what they have now, so that would be crazy to do. And also, no other studio is gonna rewrite a whole new game engine, you know how long it takes to write a game engine? And I'm not talking about creating a game but just to write a game engine.
 
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Greenmachine, try listening to what ive said. I am a programmer and a modder (Unreal) and have done alot of game design and dev work. The next gen version is not being held back because its a "ps2" engine. The next gen version has bad animations and 8 directional system because thats Konami being lazy simple as. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT BEING A PS2 ENGINE.
 
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