A case for full manual

T

TH14

Non-League
23 August 2003
Hi all,

The folks here seems to be purists when it comes to Fifa, so i thought i'll like to see what you guys think about something i've been thinking about for the longest time..

To me, learning full manual control only makes sense if it's like driving. Auto drivers, at a beginner's level, is going to drive better than a manual driver. However, if you stick with manual, the extra level of control is going to pay off once you advance in terms of driving skills, and you'll be a better driver than the auto driver.

Fifa, at manual controls, should be like this, if not, what's the point of going full manual if only to add an artificial level of difficulty, and for full manual players to believe they have more "skills" than others.

With that, here is my controls:

pass - assisted
through pass - manual
lob - manual
shooting - manual
crossing - semi

I can see the case for full manual for through pass, shooting and lobs. It allows me to play the passing and shooting game i have in my mind, once i've mastered them. leaving them on assisted makes no sense, as the AI sometimes do something i did not intend it to at assisted.

However, passing makes no sense at manual. It just makes basic passing more difficult, while giving me no extra value in terms of control. When i press "x", i just want to get the ball from 1 player to the next, and assisted works fine. If i want to play into space, i have the through pass, at manual, for that.

For crosses though, i just find full manual too imprecise... i'm considering manual, only if i see a value in it..

So, what do you guys think? Why go full manual? Does it really make you a better player? Or is it to boost the ego, and it feels good being among the "elite"

Let me know.. If I see the value of manual passing, i might switch...
 
Very good post, imo. I think there has developed an ego thing amongst some manual players, like they play "real" football, etc, etc.

I think full manual does give you bit more of an option, but it amounts to the occassional "unscripted" pass that couldn't be achieved on assisted. However, this comes at the price of speed of passing (waiting for the power bar to rise), and clearly more chance of misplaced passes.

But playing on manual against someone of fully assisted means you put yourself at disadvantage, and your point is a good one. The reward for going fully manual is more of an ego massage than actually giving you an edge during the match.

In my opinion, the passing speed issue on full manual is the biggest problem. Fully assisted players can just ping, ping, ping perfect passes around with no skill but get rewarded for this lack of effort.

It would be great if EA could come up with a way of rewarding the manual player more. Maybe they could make fully assisted passing far more inaccurate and slower. But then all the fully-assisted players would complain the game is too hard and EA couldn't have that.
 
TH14 said:
It just makes basic passing more difficult
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Personally speaking, this is a major reason for having passing on manual for me. I want the challenge. You have shooting on manual, so you know how satisfying it is when you finish successfully. Imagine if that flowing passing move beforehand had been achieved with manual passing!

Passing the ball is probably the thing you do most during a game, I want each pass to take some concentration and skill otherwise you can just get into the boring, automatic ping, ping, ping... and then FIFA becomes as easy as PES became because you've got 70% possession every game.

I don't think there's really any 'edge' to be gained by manual passing.
 
Going to give those settings a go in a bit, see how I get on. I use manual crossing though, I think semi is more imprecise.
 
I've only just started playing full manual and I'm enjoying it. I find crossing on manual is much better than on assisted (ive not tried semi) just because on ASS all of my crosses went flying over everyone's heads to the back post time after time but on manual I tend to be able to pick a player out and get it directed at him. It might still miss him or go over his head but that's football for ya.

The extra bit of difficulty using manual controls adds help myself when playing on professional difficulty as I find 'world class' too difficult to keep playing my style of play. I like to take my time and pass the ball around. Work a hole in the defence and then pass the ball through it. On the higher difficulties the AI tend to cheat and put constant pressure on you with little to no sign of fatigue from them. Nearly every tackle or stumble ends up with the AI gaining the advantage and I find that my only real way out is to ping pong the ball around them and spam 1 vs 1 shots with finesse.

I don't think I'm playing manual to give myself an ego boost - but you know, when I manage to score a screamer of a goal, it probably does give me a bit of a pat on the head to know that I actually scored that goal and it wasn't the scripted AI adding curl onto the ball and doing most of the aiming and work for me.
 
Well I played two matches with the settings above, and really enjoyed it!

Won 1, and lost the other. Was good fun though, need to get used to the shooting.
 
TH14 said:
Hi all,

The folks here seems to be purists when it comes to Fifa, so i thought i'll like to see what you guys think about something i've been thinking about for the longest time..

To me, learning full manual control only makes sense if it's like driving. Auto drivers, at a beginner's level, is going to drive better than a manual driver. However, if you stick with manual, the extra level of control is going to pay off once you advance in terms of driving skills, and you'll be a better driver than the auto driver.
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The first thing is that this simply, patently isn't true. You don't have to be just experienced to do better at manual, you have to be a genius and a freak to do better with manual than assisted.

Fifa, at manual controls, should be like this, if not, what's the point of going full manual if only to add an artificial level of difficulty, and for full manual players to believe they have more "skills" than others.
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How about these ones... Fun? Realism?

I can see the case for full manual for through pass, shooting and lobs. It allows me to play the passing and shooting game i have in my mind, once i've mastered them. leaving them on assisted makes no sense, as the AI sometimes do something i did not intend it to at assisted.

However, passing makes no sense at manual. It just makes basic passing more difficult, while giving me no extra value in terms of control. When i press "x", i just want to get the ball from 1 player to the next, and assisted works fine. If i want to play into space, i have the through pass, at manual, for that.

For crosses though, i just find full manual too imprecise... i'm considering manual, only if i see a value in it..

So, what do you guys think? Why go full manual? Does it really make you a better player? Or is it to boost the ego, and it feels good being among the "elite"

Let me know.. If I see the value of manual passing, i might switch...
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Don't you think if we wanted an ego massage we'd go and play assisted and win a lot and get a good rank? I didn't play ranked online in FIFA 09 - I wouldn't do that for an 'ego massasge'.

You want to use whatever you see the most value in - I want to use the settings which are most realistic and fun for me. I'd prefer not to be character-assassinated as an arrogant big-head.
 
Assisted passing is just way too easy, meaning it's no achievement whatsoever putting together a flowing passing move as the CPU did all the work for you, that's why I don't use it, it's not fun even though you score loads of goals and win... Every pass is way too perfect on assisted and I think the only reason to actually use it is if you want ego boost by playing perfect football and making yourself think YOU did it...

Actually having to think about what you're doing instead of just mashing the pass button instantly makes the game more realistic. What fun would a driving game be if all you had to do was accellerate and brake and not steer? That's basically what FIFA assisted does.

Thankfully, the manual filter in FIFA 10 actually works well, so we can get decent 1v1 games now, but the other online modes such as Clubs still suffer from assisted-tosser syndrome.

Assists need to be dumbed down massively so that they are less perfect and more like PES of old (especially 3 and 5) and/or disallowed in ranked matches because the way they are at the moment, they are simply wrong.
 
Rob92 said:
Assists need to be dumbed down massively so that they are less perfect and more like PES of old (especially 3 and 5) and/or disallowed in ranked matches because the way they are at the moment, they are simply wrong.
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Exactly! Why would someone get a rank when all they do is press a button!!
nintendooneswitches.jpg
 
ant0n said:
Semi and Manual should be the only control settings in FIFA.
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At least in online gaming. There should be a chance of making a wrong pass and that is not present when using assisted. I don't care about getting wins online; I just want to enjoy the game with other people.
 
Just tried this set:

pass - semi
through pass - manual
lob - manual
shooting - semi
crossing - semi

And the game is much more enjoyable to me. Going back from manual makes semi so much easier than going from assisted.
 
I guess the thing about ego is on the message boards... While an assisted player probably wins more online, but on the message boards, assisted players certainly is classed as a less skilled noobz..

Anyway, I think I'll try manual for crossing, since the people here seems to find that it provides a certain edge, with mastery.. I just find it sometimes difficult to turn the analog stick to aim towards goal after sprinting down the line. I sometimes end up crossing into the crowd straight ahead on manual, especially if I'm being pressured by a defender while sprinting down the wings.

For passing though, I find it unrealistic actually on manual.. Probably this is due to a function of the AI where they are always holding onto "x".. Online, certainly, everybody will just play with their hands on the "x" button. This is unrealistic, as real players do not always pressure the ball holder AT ALL TIMES.. because of the constant pressure, it turns out much more fun being able to pass the ball around more quickly, when you need to..

Anyway, when playing online, there defintely needs to have a match in terms of control... players on manual should play against other manual players, and assisted players against other assisted players.. that is only fair, and would allow the win to go to the more deserving player..
 
Is there a big difference between semi and assisted for passing? I find them pretty similar...
 
another thing... I agree that the "waiting for power bar to rise" on manual passing is actually very unrealistic!

It makes first touch passes so much more difficult.. In real life, when I play football, I can take the time the ball takes to travel to my feet to make an assesment of the field, and execute a first touch pass to the best appropriate player/position, and that is realism (real foorball on a field).. For the game, i find that i have to use that time to buffer for the power bar to rise and end up not being able to make on the spot decisions.. I have to already plan way ahead how far i want the ball to travel, and cannot adjust to situation.. Certainly, it makes one touch passing more difficult as the distance to the receiver increases..

Maybe I just suck :)
 
TH14 said:
Is there a big difference between semi and assisted for passing? I find them pretty similar...
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There is a chance to miss pass sometimes unlike assisted which is perfect 99.9%.

Edit: Wanted to add that manual crossing is indeed great but I'll just stay on semi for now.
 
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TH14 said:
another thing... I agree that the "waiting for power bar to rise" on manual passing is actually very unrealistic!

It makes first touch passes so much more difficult.. In real life, when I play football, I can take the time the ball takes to travel to my feet to make an assesment of the field, and execute a first touch pass to the best appropriate player/position, and that is realism (real foorball on a field).. For the game, i find that i have to use that time to buffer for the power bar to rise and end up not being able to make on the spot decisions.. I have to already plan way ahead how far i want the ball to travel, and cannot adjust to situation.. Certainly, it makes one touch passing more difficult as the distance to the receiver increases..

Maybe I just suck :)
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Well for one ping pong passing is not easy to do in real life. But that's not to say it's hard to do in FIFA 10 either. On manual it is doable.
 
It's the shooting I can't get used to. Watching my strikers miss from ridiculously easy positions because it's so sensitive drove me insane, so have that back to semi. But I do feel like my long shots aren't as likely to go in, and the keeper is moving before they arrive...
 
TH14 said:
I guess the thing about ego is on the message boards... While an assisted player probably wins more online, but on the message boards, assisted players certainly is classed as a less skilled noobz..

Anyway, I think I'll try manual for crossing, since the people here seems to find that it provides a certain edge, with mastery.. I just find it sometimes difficult to turn the analog stick to aim towards goal after sprinting down the line. I sometimes end up crossing into the crowd straight ahead on manual, especially if I'm being pressured by a defender while sprinting down the wings.
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Try what I do - When you're running down the wings try to use the knock on move (press forwards on the right stick) to knock the ball forward then as your player runs after the ball on the train tracks he's locked to hold up/down and aim at the players in the box and press cross.
 
Full manual for me just makes it so more realistic.

If I am playing well then my passes come off and my game is good and effective. If I am not in the mood or concentrating enough, I play rubbish.

I have played alot of the recent fifas 08/09 and Playing manual now, I have never easily won a game. I have realistic score lines and matches.

Sometimes I might win by a couple of goals and I think I have won by 3 goals very rarely.

You misplace/overhit passes and crosses, you miss easy chances etc but that all adds to the realism to me, those things happen in every football game.

Manual passing can be very frustrating, but the feeling when you pull of a lovely move or a geat pass that you would never have been able to do on assisted/semi is just great.

The shooting took the longest for me to get used to, I am still getting used to it. But when I score a screamer I love it, they don't happen all of the time (Like in real life) so when you do hit it sweet it feels great.

But Manual can only be enjoyed if you play other manual players or CPU. I prayed for a better search system this year around and now I can easily find manual players and it makes the games brilliant. If a player scores against me, I have no arguments, because I know they scored it.

The biggest thing for me after playing all manual is freedom. I feel free to do what I want, that is the biggest attribute of going fully manual for me.
 
Ive been tweaknig to get the right balance.

I was full manual on 09, and began 10 on it. Whether Ive gone crap or not, I just wasnt enjoying it. Switched passing to semi and its much better for now. I still get frustrated not putting it exactly where i want like manual can. The speed of passing and charging the bar is my issue.

IMO it would be perfect if they changed the passing if you're full manual. We dont need a pass, and a through pass button.

One is enough

But a short pass (A Button) for shortish passes (0-20 yards), and one that is a tap (Y Button) equaling say a 20 yeard ground pass minium, powered down to a 50 yard "zipper" along the ground would be far better IMO
 
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Full manual is teh dogs. Hard to master but very rewarding. I love manual passing. I like that i can deftly touch it into the path of a player or aim it slightly beyond an attacker.

All my moves.
 
My personal opinion is you use whatever works for you. Theres no point losing to a "assisted" player and then using their opponents controls as an excuse for losing cuz you have the option of using it too. Like TH14 said, the only two reason why I see people using manual is to either get that extra bit of precision or to boost their ego. Now if that works for you then fine. But if you're someone who wants to use fully manual, why should I (a assisted or semi player) have to handicap myself to play with a style (the manual controls) that doesnt suit me?
I personally play on semi cuz it gives me a good balance between the two, even though its a little more on the assisted side. But if I ever felt that semi was restricting me in any way, I wouldnt hesitate to move on to manual.
Like Winston said, manual users have developed an ego here, thinking they play "real football". Sorry to burst your bubble but real football is when you put on a pair of shorts and boots and outside to play with a real ball. Just cuz you have full or more control over your virtual footballer than I do, it doesnt make it any more better or real. If you ask me, its this very assumption that has people thinking FIFA is miles ahead of PES.
 
RuneEdge said:
Just cuz you have full or more control over your virtual footballer than I do, it doesnt make it any more better or real. If you ask me, its this very assumption that has people thinking FIFA is miles ahead of PES.
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I score a curled shot on the volley from a cross on manual and you score one the same using assisted/semi controls.

The facts are that I will of had to to aim the cross to him and get the power of the cross perfectly timed and then actually aim the shot myself while directing the run of the player.

Whereas an assisted player just taps 'cross' and then taps 'shoot' while they're running on the pre determined scripted train track path directly where the ball is about to land in the box to get the same result.

Of course scoring a good goal on manual makes it better than the same goal scored on assisted. Because YOU had to do most of the work yourself, not just tap shoot and sit back.

I scored this using full manual controls
YouTube - Fifa 10 Great Volley
YouTube - Fifa 10 Great Volley 2

I had to actually control the direction of the player running (as he's not locked on a train track path to directly where the ball is about to land) then aim the shot and lastly get the power right (which is the same for all controls schemes). On assisted you can get the same goal by just tapping shoot and holding run.

I'm not playing on manual because I think I'm better than anyone else or want a virtual blowjob by others - I'm playing on it because I've heard the game really opens up a lot more and I wanted to experience that. Does that make me better than someone else? No. But does that make the above goal scored on manual a better goal than the same goal scored with assisted? Definitely yes.
 
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Nice goal. But in saying that the goal is better on manual than on assisted because "I had to control...etc" is basically the definition of ego. There's nothing wrong with that...we all have ego and we all would get more satisfaction of doing something that required more skill, but it's still, almost by definition, an ego thing.

But I'm far more intrigued by the other angle of this thread - does playing on manual give you more of an advantage over someone playing on assisted? Head-to-head, a decent assisted player will run rings around a decent manual player. Sure, the manual player may be able to play the occassional subtle pass, and pat himself on the back if he plays a few nice moves (ego), but the assisted player has the advantage.

It would be nice if EA could come up with a way that made playing on manual clearly more advantageous. That might encourage far more to try it online (where 99.9% of players are fully assisted).
 
But again, why does it make a difference to you what your opponent uses?
If you want to use manual then fine. If you want to add an extra element of difficulty to produce the same results as a assisted player then go ahead. But to judge someone else because they dont want to use the same manual controls is totally wrong. Just use whatever works for you and leave it at that, not moan because people with assisted are able to ping pong the ball around better than you. You also have the option of doing the same so its only an advantage for the opponent because you handicapped yourself.


EDIT
That was aimed at Radiation btw.
 
Rune, for me it's about a level playing field. I don't use all manual at the moment, I use semi, and as long as the opponent uses the same control method as me that's fine. It's when they are getting more help from the CPU than I am, playing perfect football with little input, that annoys me.

So the filter is a very good thing. You can play however you want to play and only play against people with the same level of assistance as you.
 
Why not join them on assisted? Because its no fun to play like that? When I play a football game, I want it to resemble what I watch on TV or at a match as closely as possible.

When you play these guys online and its constant pressuring, sprinting and ping pong forward passing, its so far from realism its untrue.

Playing on manual, with longer halves and a few 'unwritten' rules like not over-pressing and not sprinting all the time makes it so much better.
 
For me, the problem is that single player is designed around assisted controls and the other control systems are incidental. Semi passing is essentially assisted controls that have a much narrower 'cone' within which you have to aim to get your pass right. For me, I think that semi should be an easier version of manual, with most of the assistance going towards improving the weight of your pass (but not getting it perfect as it does at the moment, and with some assistance of the direction.

I also play on semi because you are more likely to misplace a pass. I wouldn't mind manual passing if it wasn't for the delay in charging up the pass in the first place. I think this, as well as the whole footballer-individuality vs gamer input, is what holds me back. That said, because semi passing is an offshoot of assisted passing and not manual, semi passing loses individuality because provided I point the stick fairly accurately, every player seems very competent at hitting the target.
 
winston said:
Nice goal. But in saying that the goal is better on manual than on assisted because "I had to control...etc" is basically the definition of ego.
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No, that's the definition of ACTUALLY playing the game by making an effort to do so! If I wanted to play against that much assistance then I would just play offline. I don't want to play against someone who presses forward and pass pass pass until the ball reaches the attacker, and it always does! I need a game where I feel that I am playing football with people who THINK before they play. That's all.
 
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