Konami - 70% jump in profits

Chris Davies

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
UK
Tranmere Rovers
Thought it was worth discussing this in here, seeing as they create our favourite football game...

Konami are reporting a 70% jump in profits - there's actually been a drop in revenue, but their operating costs have been lowered.

SOURCE: Eurogamer - Konami Doing Very Well Indeed

On the surface, this sounds like great news for PES - higher profit equals a higher opportunity for real investment in the game (better programmers / artists = better playing / looking game)...

But I'm actually a little concerned (and looking for reassurance to be honest), because I have the following questions:

A) You can see download numbers for a lot of games, but not PES (which is just described as delivering a "solid performance"). Does it sell a significant amount less than their other games?

B) With operating costs being lowered and PES performing "solidly" (which I translate as "satisfactorily"), is this the most Konami want out of it? Is PES going to become a yearly "slap the new teams in and call it a new game" operation, because realistically, without a massive turnaround (and investment), sales numbers aren't going to leap up any time soon?
 
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Jimi_Zuko said:
myclub could be playing a big part
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Could be, difficult to know.

But according to the figures (direct link to the PDF), their "digital entertainment" revenue* dropped by 7.3m yen (about £50,000 / $65,000). There's no further breakdown but either way, it's a drop, and despite it being their biggest revenue source, it makes me think that Konami's view will be "we're making money, let's continue to run this with less cost", rather than "let's invest the extra money we've made into enhancing our products", when they know that, with PES, it won't translate into (m)any extra sales given the complete market control of EA with FIFA.

The previous financial year included MGS5, so a drop was to be expected, but there's no breakdown of how much of that "digital entertainment" revenue is from PES. Given the success of their mobile games (and how much they talk about them, compared to their PES statement), I think we're looking at a pretty thin slice of it.

To put all of this in perspective, their mobile game "JIKKYOU POWERFUL SOCCER" has over six million downloads globally, and offers in-app purchases just like myClub does. PES 2017 is estimated to have sold less than a million physical copies globally. Even if you double those figures to account for digital sales (which isn't realistic), you've got a platform for in-app purchases that's about 30% of the size of that ONE mobile game.

Add all of their mobile games up and you're looking at SEVENTY MILLION downloads. Making PES a platform for in-app purchases that's 3% of that size.

It feels to me like PES is going to be stuck in the mud for the next few years, which is hard to swallow when its quality has just hit a new peak.

*Not to be confused with "gaming and systems" which refers to arcade and gambling machines!
 
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I think this will be the year where they put PC to the test.
I'm sure they'll finally release a proper next-gen PC version and see if we all respond to it. If the PC community doesn't back it up as expected, they may not give it a another chance in the future whenever they decide to change the whole thing again (engine and stuff).
 
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Mehtab said:
Is Konami known to take risks in business though?
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Bingo. Their whole business model is based on safe bets, especially now that Kojima has gone. They're not going to invest a lot of money in one place or another - they're not "spend money to make money", they're "spend a little, make a little". Which makes me think that, with PES, we're in for years of "this is a little better, everything else is the exact same".
 
Chris Davies said:
Bingo. Their whole business model is based on safe bets, especially now that Kojima has gone. They're not going to invest a lot of money in one place or another - they're not "spend money to make money", they're "spend a little, make a little". Which makes me think that, with PES, we're in for years of "this is a little better, everything else is the exact same".
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In my opinion, this has already been the case for 2 years now. For me, PES 2015-2017 is essentially the same game with a few tweaks.
 
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majuh said:
In my opinion, this has already been the case for 2 years now. For me, PES 2015-2017 is essentially the same game with a few tweaks.
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I feel like 2017 is massively more enjoyable than the previous games - but I don't think critical success has equated to financial success.

Konami may look at that with PES 2017 and think, what's the point in spending money making a better game if we're not going to see any jump in profit from it.

We may even see a FIFA-style focus on their "crack for kids" mode, myClub. I just get this strong feeling that 2017 might be the peak for a little while...
 
Chris Davies said:
they're not "spend money to make money", they're "spend a little, make a little". Which makes me think that, with PES, we're in for years of "this is a little better, everything else is the exact same".
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Which, in the experiences I've had with PES, that's the best thing that can happend to us.
After the whole PES 2008 (all the way until PES 2013) and PES 2014 (all the way until PES 2017) I've begging for Konami to adopt and embrace this step-by-step philosophy. Clearly, they don't have the resources, team or skills to work on the upcoming next version WHILE working on the future of PES series with a new engine at the same time, like EA does. For them, it's either 'focus on next year's version' OR 'prepare for two games at the same time: One slightly improved, and the other, a total disaster'.

I'm loving PES 2017 on PC, even with all the downgradeing they've done on purpose to it. I can only hope for a proper PES 2018 that's exactly the same as on PS4 PRO. Taking baby steps will make PES great again (LOL). Until one day, perhaps, they do have enough resources to gather a second team to start preparing the migration to a new engine to release a proper next-gen version without suffering 3 years in the process.
 
Chuny said:
Clearly, they don't have the resources, team or skills to work on the upcoming next version WHILE working on the future of PES series with a new engine at the same time, like EA does. For them, it's either 'focus on next year's version' OR 'prepare for two games at the same time: One slightly improved, and the other, a total disaster'.
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I see your point.

It just feels like there's so much potential in the current game - more than there has been in years, IMO. If the Master League had more to do (and made it worth rotating your squad), for example, it'd be a better game. But the on-the-pitch stuff needs work too - matches are end-to-end, no build-up required, and there's not much variation in passes or shot types.
 
Chris Davies said:
I see your point.

It just feels like there's so much potential in the current game - more than there has been in years, IMO. If the Master League had more to do (and made it worth rotating your squad), for example, it'd be a better game. But the on-the-pitch stuff needs work too - matches are end-to-end, no build-up required, and there's not much variation in passes or shot types.
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But I guess we all agree it will be a lot easier to get there from were we are right now.
Basically we just need 6 items more than anything else:

1-MANY, many more animations, specially in shooting and passing.
2-A lot more depth in Master League.
3-A lot more depth in Tactics/Formations/Strategies (PES 2011 style) (this should automatically result in better games, with more build up, less direct end to end).
4-Better in-game atmosphere.
5-Better presentation, menus, etc - This has been vastly improved, but not enough IMO for a 2017 game.

6-Better dribbling/feinting system. Right now it's impossible to get passed players without either sprinting or using the right stick (FIFA style). I miss the PES 5/6/13 days where dribbling stats mattered and you could use momentum to get passed opponents with skillful players. Like in FIFA, if you get the timing right and you have the right players, there's no need to sprint at all, just pass the ball and dribble- I feel very limited right now in PES, in that aspect.
 
Chuny said:
But I guess we all agree it will be a lot easier to get there from were we are right now.
Basically we just need 6 items more than anything else:

1-MANY, many more animations, specially in shooting and passing.
2-A lot more depth in Master League.
3-A lot more depth in Tactics/Formations/Strategies (PES 2011 style) (this should automatically result in better games, with more build up, less direct end to end).
4-Better in-game atmosphere.
5-Better presentation, menus, etc - This has been vastly improved, but not enough IMO for a 2017 game.

6-Better dribbling/feinting system. Right now it's impossible to get passed players without either sprinting or using the right stick (FIFA style). I miss the PES 5/6/13 days where dribbling stats mattered and you could use momentum to get passed opponents with skillful players. Like in FIFA, if you get the timing right and you have the right players, there's no need to sprint at all, just pass the ball and dribble- I feel very limited right now in PES, in that aspect.
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I'm confused! Dribbling is so easy to do in PES this year. You just gotta hold the right stick down or any direction then move the left stick. Far more responsive than last year. Very rewarding.
 
PES94 said:
I'm confused! Dribbling is so easy to do in PES this year. You just gotta hold the right stick down or any direction then move the left stick. Far more responsive than last year. Very rewarding.
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+1
Dribbling is very good this year!! Its not necessary change for best responsive.
 
A problem I have with dribbling in PES is that as soon as a player get the ball, he and the ball become a single entity. There is not that feeling that you can loose the ball if you push it too much or if you push it in a wrong direction (out of player balance) like in fifa 16 for example. It is like the ball is attached to an elastic to the player with barely 2 or 3 animations (outside the right stick skills).In comparison fifa 16 gives you way more freedom in term of movement and a true feeling that your are handling the ball. After all, dribbling is more about close control and change in pace rather than skill movements.
 
Konami has been preferring slot machines and mobile games lately. Personally, I am just thankful that the whole PES series hasn't been abandoned in favour of some cash grab game. All PC versions from 2015 to 2017 have sold around ~160,000 copies, even with Denuvo this year their wasn't any substantial increase in PES 2017's PC sales. Hopefully next gen graphics will bring the crowd in, but I am skeptical about the loss of people with lower specced PCs
 
KONAMI is doing so well it reached peak stock value since 2002. It also never stops, more the mobile games are successful,just like the recent Pes 2017 mobile, better the stock value.
 
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