PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

zeemeister said:
Hit the nail on the freaking head. Sure it has problems but bloody hell enjoy what's there and stop liv ng in the past. Sound like damn pensioners "back in my day PES was so awesome"
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Thing is Zee, it really was awesome. Sites like this were good places to be because there wasn't a great deal to moan about in the PES world. Most people were just enjoying the game and sharing their experiences. You can even go back to the ISS days on the PS1. Every year the game got steadily better and better and we played each game religiously until the next one came out.

As PES fans we've had to endure a difficult time for the past five or six years. I'm sure we all had visions of what PES would look and play like on the PS3 & 360 and I expect the reality of what we've been given is very different. Unfortunately the game these days just doesn't cut it for most people hence the moaning and discontent. Once/if the game returns to it's former glory then the moaning will stop. Simple as that.

The way I interpret the negativity is that we've got a passionate bunch of people here who desperately want to see PES return to form. I don't think people enjoy being down on PES all the time.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

But was it? I remember booting up PES 2 and being livid then booteed up PES 3 and never switched it off again and back in the doldrums for PES4. These things have ebbs and flows mate and I do not think PES 2011 or 2012 for that matter gets the applauds for what they have done right.

I dunno I enjoy it for what it is
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

info0 said:
10 times easier to play? Really now? I find it quite harder to play than PES 2011/2012 personally ;).

Especially WE9LE ;P.

Anyways back to topic ;).

New videos coming when?
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Well it's a much more simple game, leading to a lot of "sweet spot" situations. Even today, after a few matches I start remembering all of them and playing against AI (and even online, depending of the people you play against) is very predictable.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Deluxe said:
Is funny because on the previous generation (PS2) no one complained.
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That was the problem wasn't it, when bugs and issues in PES 1-6 came out, people just said, STOP MOANING, your shit, you can't play properly, PES was like a cult, bit like as people call WENB now.

Some PES fans back then where right snobs at times really, didn't give any other gaems a chance and where very up themselves about other games. There was no calls for development or anything. I don't think many of these old cult like people are taking any responsibility for their one eyed perceptions back then. i don't excuse some of the bad titles in this gen and early on there was some crap from Konami (2008, 2009, i liked 2010 but it was so, so broken)

Something is wrong in the current gen and is evident.
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There are problems but we must understand what these problems are in a balanced way, it is heavily naive to think it will go back to the old days when pes was the only choice among many other rather incompetent games. People just naively clutch at straws thinking things will go back to how PES 6 was, however back then there wasn't the same strive for development and 3D special beautiful engines like we see now. Back then we didn't expect big technical upgrades and fancy animations, just a fluid game which was responsive and addictive.

Football games have not been as good as on the last generation but however our communities are heavily divided and many really don't know what needs to be done, people are lost and angry and have got so used to complaining, i don't even think they know what they want and just complain because they have got so used to it.

Customers have right to complain and not be conformist.
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It's not about complaining for the sake of it, its about how productive you complaining is.

people are so angry, they are highly clinical of both titles on release thee days and just look for faults rather than actually relax play the game. They spend time on forums looking for is anyone else has complained and try to find the faults, rather than try to enjoy themselves.

Back from PES 1-6, a bad animation? a fault? poor programming, ahh it's just PES magic or it's just part of the game. The 'secret lob was an heavy exploit in all the PS2 PES games however this was embraced as if it was good gameplay.

Now, any fault with the game is shouted endlessly!

We have a culture where if someone is unhappy with the game he just cannot take it that someone else is enjoying it, he must convince everyone around him on forums to follow what he says. "If i'm not happy, i don't want anyone else to be happy until I've given what i want!". Some here are hell bend on destroying other peoples enjoyment.

We have a giant witch hunt culture where if now someone isn't highly cynical or negative he's seen as either a fanboy or he's being irrational saying we aren't allowed to complain. People can complain if they want but complaining let's to anger, cynicism and a negative outlook which takes on a complete entity in itself. You stop seeing things in a balanced way, instead, you look at whats not there all the time, whats wrong, you spend time with a mentality to search fro faults, you end up finding more faults than what is necessary!

If you think PES will be rubbish all the time, it will be rubbish!
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
Once/if the game returns to it's former glory then the moaning will stop. Simple as that.

The way I interpret the negativity is that we've got a passionate bunch of people here who desperately want to see PES return to form. I don't think people enjoy being down on PES all the time.
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Thats the thing, the game has changed so much, the PS2 to the PS3 era, so much has changed, we need to understand what are Konami capable of, what are EA capable of now?

back then Konami had no budget issues and didn't have to worry about online play. These are two factors which have hit them like a giant sledgehammer and still continues so. Back then nobody played online, now there are people who ONLY play online and Konami need to look and see that.

Complaining takes on an entity ion itself, it really does, it becomes the person and it's actually hard to get out of that state of mind on a subject, it's like if you stop complaining, you almost thing, 'shit' i'm being to lenient, it still hasn't got this, and this and this.

This is not just a PES thing, this is absolutely everywhere. You see this all the time, some people once they feel disappointed for a stretch of time, they find it hard to turn themselves around.

Many complaints are justified, however i see many co plain about things which are very much int he game but they are so negative they just don't want to see or embrace on acknowledge it. It goes both ways. I feel at the moment is safer to be cynical than actually be positive on these forums.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

IMO more predictable is on PES 11/12, if you think, on the past generation PES you will never make the same play or goal again. That the same reason that the "save a goal" option was full of replays.
Playing PES 2012 is always the same games, and goals ( special mention on crossing goals) thats why is boring.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

zeemeister said:
I dunno I enjoy it for what it is
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That's is what i'm trying to tell everyone. If you feel disappointed, try to enjoy it for what it is, if you still don't enjoy it, complain, make good balanced points which Konami could use or just rant a bit, put it down and walk away.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Deluxe said:
IMO more predictable is on PES 11/12, if you think, on the past generation PES you will never make the same play or goal again. That the same reason that the "save a goal" option was full of replays.
Playing PES 2012 is always the same games, and goals ( special mention on crossing goals) thats why is boring.
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Not what I meant.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Deluxe said:
IMO more predictable is on PES 11/12, if you think, on the past generation PES you will never make the same play or goal again.
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I just mentioned the secret lob with was a guranteed goal on the PS2 games. Not to mention the rabona goals, the shots across the keeper from range which you knew went in as soon as the ball left the players foot. there where many a scripted common goal in those games, many unique but those always had their common goals.

That the same reason that the "save a goal" option was full of replays.
Playing PES 2012 is always the same games, and goals ( special mention on crossing goals) thats why is boring.
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Ok, so when i find that i score a large variety of goals in PES 2012, many which i can show in a video compilation i guess i'm wrong regardless because you say otherwise? I mean since your not having a good time, nobody should have a good time? Everyone should be bored like you on the game?

when someone says something else which is outside your understanding do you check up what they say and take their advice or shout them down and say, No, your wrong, you should be bored with the game and angry like me.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

every year it is the same

all amazed with demo version, congratulating Konami for the incredible work, ball physics and everything else.

after a few weeks as usual, complaints.
IA
defense
animations


winning eleven 2002 and pes 6, amazing, new generation FUC..K
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

klashman69,
One or two years of bad games - i think, a lot of people can tolerate that, and give you constructive criticism. But after 5 years of downhill slide in quality (2008-2012), it's only natural that polite critique and suggestions for improvement are replaced with scorn and negative outbursts. It's only for so long you can release half-baked products and turn a blind eye on customer feedback (which is what Konami's been doing with PES lately)
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Klash I would have NO problem if KONAMI/Jon actually listened what community and general public wants. If so many people mentions that GK are broken, that AI dribbling is way too ridiculous, that there is cheating script (which wasn't there 2 years ago!) which ruins the single player gameplay, that night mode games and different stadiums gameplay feels different...

That FL mode is ridiculous, with players moaning constantly about not being played, training which makes NO SENSE whatsoever, etc.

That something is on. That last is about PES 2012 alone... Doubt many of those things will be fixed in 2013, but we shall see :/. Hoping that Kei produces something which will top other efforts by mile ;).
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

My best guess is these guys never figured out how to program a proper game for the PS3. I find it laughable that they should expect people to wait for a new engine when they knew they had screwed the pooch 3 years ago. This same company makes the best baseball game and has for years. After a sub standard effort with their first PS3 game Pro Yakyu Spirits 4 they had licked every problem that plagued the first game the very next year. So Seabass and company don't get a 4 year pass in my book.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

klashman69 said:
Football games have not been as good as on the last generation but however our communities are heavily divided and many really don't know what needs to be done, people are lost and angry and have got so used to complaining, i don't even think they know what they want and just complain because they have got so used to it.



It's not about complaining for the sake of it, its about how productive you complaining is.

people are so angry, they are highly clinical of both titles on release thee days and just look for faults rather than actually relax play the game. They spend time on forums looking for is anyone else has complained and try to find the faults, rather than try to enjoy themselves.
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If I wouldn't try to enjoy PES 2012 I wouldn't have played it now for five months every day. Nonetheless I experience major problems that disturb my enjoyment and it is not animation-transition or ballphysics, eventhough both need a rework, but basic things like playerawareness, playerswitching, goalkeeper, referreing (too many times was I fouled in the goal-area of the opponent and nothing happened) and overuse of cheating.

These basic problems were way less prominent during the PS2-times, and that's why other problems could be forgiven back then, because the game worked mostly as it should. Sure it hadn't the freedom and features of this gen's PES-games like manual passing, 360-degree-dribbling... but for what the PS2-games offered it was very polished.

For example the referrees were way better, the goalkeepers were way better, the crowd-atmosphere was way better (they were more active and used flags), the shooting had more feeling, the ball felt more independent and had better physics, the animations had better transitions... Stamina played an active role... We had arrows to order players individually how defensive, offensive or neither they should be...

The question is why did Konami have to take a few steps back to make one step forward? Where's the love?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Sometimes I think Konami haven't got a clue really. Every year an ineffectual game is released with frustrating gameplay nothing like many of us had hoped for this generation. Elements of the game that most of us enjoy go missing, clunky features are added that were never strongly requested, poorly designed surveys are generated and promises of a better game next year are consistently floated:CONFUSE:
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

juce said:
klashman69,
One or two years of bad games - i think, a lot of people can tolerate that, and give you constructive criticism. But after 5 years of downhill slide in quality (2008-2012), it's only natural that polite critique and suggestions for improvement are replaced with scorn and negative outbursts. It's only for so long you can release half-baked products and turn a blind eye on customer feedback (which is what Konami's been doing with PES lately)
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info0 said:
Klash I would have NO problem if KONAMI/Jon actually listened what community and general public wants. If so many people mentions that GK are broken, that AI dribbling is way too ridiculous, that there is cheating script (which wasn't there 2 years ago!) which ruins the single player gameplay, that night mode games and different stadiums gameplay feels different...

That FL mode is ridiculous, with players moaning constantly about not being played, training which makes NO SENSE whatsoever, etc.

That something is on. That last is about PES 2012 alone... Doubt many of those things will be fixed in 2013, but we shall see :/. Hoping that Kei produces something which will top other efforts by mile ;).
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Ok, this is again what i'm talking about. PES has got worse since PES 2010? It's got worse every year since then? I mean PES 2008 was total shit, 2009 weren't great, 2010 broken, thing is, it's improved since then but many are just saying. PES is shit because it don't give me that PES6 5 etc.. feeling. So just saying the entire game is total crap, PES is dead, getting on a soapbox and raging with criticism because it doesn't give people that 'old' feeling.

I can see, this is definatley a problem, i can see this because you all getting so defensive, nobody is questioning themselevs at all, this is NOT good, this is not good at all. You must question yourself at all times, thats how you learn, become wise and grown in life. Nobody is even attempting to see where i'm coming from, or even for a second questioning themselves, or taking a different approach, stepping back from the game, not worrying or concerned on what others say.

Maybe you should turn off these forums which i did for a long period of time, take perspectives only from your mates, i noticed they knew the game had flaws but didn't complain about them hardly, just enjoyed what was there. Forums and my friends view on games are SO different SO SO different, it's night and day! Totally night and day, this is my point, most people in the world, 90% i'd say just follow others, you can see this on gaming videos for example where 90% will just use commercial music which the media or the masses listen to, not many will play diverse tracks they have consciously searched for. This is heavily compounded on internet site, where nobody wants to be the freak, everyone is scared of being mocked and everyone wants others to agree with them.

End result, people are just getting put off from visiting this site, period!

I noticed at least 3 posts from people who said, 'i was liking the game until i came to this forum". "Then i started to look for bugs".

It's like nobody looks at themselves and saying, are we being a bit overdramaitic? It's like people can't accept how dogshit PES 2008, just how far back it was between 2008-2010 and it's like people expect Konami to magically just within a year, BANG a perfect game with no faults. We need to accept Konami royally fucked up then and have a long way backt o create a all round solid game with little to no faults at all.

Nobody can look past what PES 6 was, you can't get over how bad PES 2008-2010, your all almost anxious to find that feeling back. It's like a player missing an open goal which lead to his team being relegated, you just can't look past what 'could' have been, he dosen't even ackknowledge what he has to work with, his team gets back promoted but isn't the same force, and can't look at the current situation, only what 'couldv'e' been.

I did the same for fifa for a few years, it wasan't good, you just end up irrate and hating the game, it didn't help me, the developers of FIFA or people on forums, just many disgruntled posts. It never lead anywhere. this whole thing about Konami not listening, you know this is not true, infact the truth is while everyone was happy with PES 1-6, the problem was nobody said anything, that's a sizable factor to why PES 2008 was so shit, Konami where too safe, they didn't want to change the game much, keep the core gameplay the fans worshiped like a cult. I remember there where a few realistic fans voicing their concerns which feel of deaf ears, those who could see the series stagnation way back in 2006-07, i could see it, others again where just following the masses. FIFA got good and that time because it was so shit on the PS2, it had no choice but to make radical changes, add in the budget and the licences and viola!

'Something is up with PES'. This is the problem, are we as a community going to ask serious questions on:

What Konami are capable of since times have changed, what can we expect?

What is fair expectation?

WHAT happened really to PES what did Konami do wrong, what did WE do wrong?

What can we learn and what can Konami learn and what have they learned.

Go deeper, don't just follow another mans quote, look for a conclusion for you then move on.

No, 'Oh, it's just not right'. Are we going to keep pointing fingers at Konami, doing what an angry person does and yell out the same abuse all the time, even saying this which aren't true at all, "Konami don't listen to us, since 2011 especially the amount of content put into the games which users requested but people still say this, Konami might not make you your taylor made perfect game but they listen to the fans as a whole and there is many PES fan, many who want very different things?"

I just cannot understand also how i see so many bang on about realism and yet how many have actually tried and looked into how the tactical systems work, i even for ages appealed to the community to help out making real life tactics for most teams so we could all learn from the game but nobody seems to care, it annoys me also when people call me this tactics guru, when all i do it's just look into how it works and try to make teams play like they do in real life. I mean are we all still trying to play the games like PES 5 and 6 are we all still stuck in that linear playing mode, are we really ready for realism? At times i think many who demand realism are simply not ready for some of the harsh nature of it. This forum makes realism out to be the ONLY option so if they have it on a arcadey like setting they feel this to 'noob' which is nonsense! That's where i make the point, i don't think every single person here know what they want in the first place, some do, many don't.

These basic problems were way less prominent during the PS2-times, and that's why other problems could be forgiven back then
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There has always been issues in every PES. more so this generation with the underwhelming crowd atmosphere and lack of tech compared to other titles, PES 2008-09 weren't good and 2010 every broken (2011was anew beginning) However with 2012, it has no more issues than what can be perceived in PES 1-6. its just:

PES 1-6, people saw the glass as half full

PES 2012, People looking at the glass half empty.

I could go back, we could all go back and see issues if we want, i want you all to question and look for balance.

You all could be falling into the perspective where you just attack someone for the sake that he don't follow and agree with you and defend your viewpoint without even questioning it at all.

Why should i just agree with your because it's the majority of a forum say.

Remember this is just a forum. I'm not saying you should love PES, infact i just advise to you all if your unhappy, complain and walk away, i don't believe in this stuff about 'i'm passionate i have a right to moan all the time, it's a fucking video game man, it shouldn't be a major part in your life!' I love PES but it's fundamentally a hobby, always will be nothing more than that. Please don't project yourselves trying to convince others its crap because you don't want others to be happy when you are not. I'm saying question yourself, cynicism is shit, it's crap, it makes you feel down and being negative like i'm saying projects onto other and it makes the world a worse place.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

info0 said:
Klash I would have NO problem if KONAMI/Jon actually listened what community and general public wants. If so many people mentions that GK are broken, that AI dribbling is way too ridiculous, that there is cheating script (which wasn't there 2 years ago!) which ruins the single player gameplay, that night mode games and different stadiums gameplay feels different...

That FL mode is ridiculous, with players moaning constantly about not being played, training which makes NO SENSE whatsoever, etc.

That something is on. That last is about PES 2012 alone... Doubt many of those things will be fixed in 2013, but we shall see :/. Hoping that Kei produces something which will top other efforts by mile ;).
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Don't get me started with players moaning about not playing. I picked one who was moaning for a couple of games, he then started moaning about being too exhausted to play! The game makes no sense sometimes.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Sorry, i go deep, i like to move my opinion on, not just say the same stuff over and over.

We make our own truth. There IS NOT TRUTH without theory! If we have cynical intentions for a game we create our own cynical theories which are usually proven true to us.

That's what i mean when i said if you think PES is rubbish, it will be rubbish, you can apply this to any video game or any movie or anything in life.

Hence why it's so important to question ourselves.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

klashman69 said:
...

Remember this is just a forum. I'm not saying you should love PES, infact i just advise to you all if your unhappy, complain and walk away, i don't believe in this stuff about 'i'm passionate i have a right to moan all the time, it's a fucking video game man, it shouldn't be a major part in your life!' I love PES but it's fundamentally a hobby, always will be nothing more than that. Please don't project yourselves trying to convince others its crap because you don't want others to be happy when you are not. I'm saying question yourself, cynicism is shit, it's crap, it makes you feel down and being negative like i'm saying projects onto other and it makes the world a worse place.
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No one says you should agree with us moaners. If you are happy with the game, be it. PES 2011/2012 after all are a major improvement compared to PES 2008-2010.

I for one think moaning as being a positive thing, detailing and posting all the bugs and deficiencies, so that they become publically known and so that they then might be fixed in future versions. I see that as a constructive criticism. The reason why I repeat them is that Konami and its affiliates who monitor forums for feedback don't miss them and the urgency to really do something about them.

As to your suggestion that Konami should get a break, that it would be unrealistic for them to fix the game in a so short time... I disagree, because I think that Konami had time to do something major since PES 2008, that are four to five years, more than enough to get the necessary funds and talented people together to develop an engine fit enough for what PES should deliver on this gen.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Evil Heat said:
Don't get me started with players moaning about not playing. I picked one who was moaning for a couple of games, he then started moaning about being too exhausted to play! The game makes no sense sometimes.
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Even the players in the Master League are unhappy to be played in this gen's bugridden PES.:LMAO:
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

LOL - fatigue is a killer.

Good points about the animation transition before. Definitely frames missing there. I just hope they know how to use the Fox Engine properly and not get themselves trapped in a corner where they have the same problems as now.

Is it the tech or is the programmers?

Like my friend said the other night in our screenwriting class - a writer can fix any problem they find in their script, the hard part is knowing what the problem is.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

CalcioCalabrese said:
LOL - fatigue is a killer.

Good points about the animation transition before. Definitely frames missing there. I just hope they know how to use the Fox Engine properly and not get themselves trapped in a corner where they have the same problems as now.

Is it the tech or is the programmers?

Like my friend said the other night in our screenwriting class - a writer can fix any problem they find in their script, the hard part is knowing what the problem is.
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It's a bit of both, but mostly the tech.
 
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