The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

I'm so tired of reading posts that claim there are people on this thread merely stating the game is broken without backing up their claim. This is utterly false.

There are pages upon pages of people explaining why they think this game is broken which include clearly explained examples of why they think this is the case plus confirmation of these exact same problems occuring to many other PES players.

Why should we have to endlessly repeat ourselves because these guys cant be bothered to read what was said previously?

You dont need a video or an essay to prove your opinion. You dont even need technical knowledge of football (though despite what some people think I'm pretty sure most people here do have that) to validate your opinion of the game. Your opinion IS enough. You dont HAVE to justify it to anyone, least of all some sneering, faceless geek on an internet forum. Yes, I include myself in that description.

We're not all here to have our opinions validated by some self appointed "expert" or looked down upon by an elitist, snobbish peer group, some of us are just here to have our rant about what we dislike about PES 2012.

If you're only here to dispute the existence of said problems and call anyone who experiences them stupid or lacking in football knowledge you are highly likely to get abuse fired straight back at you. So why act surprised and get all uppity when it happens?

The Arsene Wenger defence of "I dont see that" coupled with the "you dont know what you're talking about" argument is obviously very annoying to a lot of folk, myself included.

Sometimes I overstep the mark, I accept that. I am not the only one though and you all know it.

I bear no grudges, an argument over a game with a guy I have never met means less than nothing to me. To me it's just a way to spend a few free minutes at work a couple of days a week.

I think it would do us all good to bear this in mind before we get on our high horses in future.

Just my thoughts for today folks.

CalcioCalabrese said:

Yeah you can't do it with the stick like in FIFA. You can do it in PES a couple of different ways. Now my buttons are mapped like FIFA so you'll need to double check these but:

- if you receive the ball from a pass (or a loose ball) press the sprint button as the ball gets to you and choose a direction. The first touch will be towards that direction. Experiment though, because it could be a slight knock on of a metre or it could go 3 or 4 metres. I think it might depend on the player's explosive stat

- while standing, hold down sprint button and special control button (for me it's L2 and R2 but for most it would be R1 and R2) and choose a direction and there's a little speed burst

- while holding down the sprint button you can press the special control button (R2 for default controls) and a direction and it does a knock on while you run

- also while holding down the sprint button, if you give it a double or triple tap or just keep tapping it, you will also get a longer knock on

- but when you don't have lots of space to knock the ball into, as you run towards goal, just give the sprint button a tap so the ball goes into your stride, rather than under your feet and power up a fair bit. This method is the one you'd generally be able to use since the space isn't always going to be available to do a "knock on" as such.

I'm going from the top of my head with these moves but try them out and check the in game command menu if I've mis-quoted something.

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Think you pretty much nailed it with those suggestions mate!

See - this is what I'm saying. I'll put together a thoughtful post and you come out calling people self appointed experts or elitist and snobbish.

I think you miss the point of a thread - it's for discussion. If you want to rant, that's fine. But if someone states a differing opinion, you're all over it like a rash.

How's that black kettle Mr Pot

xPJRx said:

Think you pretty much nailed it with those suggestions mate!

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Thanks mate!

Love your display photo! Gives me the urge to ring a few mates and go to the local park

CalcioCalabrese said:

Thanks mate!

Love your display photo! Gives me the urge to ring a few mates and go to the local park

Click to expand...

The classic 'Tango' ball - legendary!!
Fond memories (just) of the Mexico 86 world cup!! or kicking an air floater about with your mates like you said.

Lets get the Tango ball in PES13!!! ;-)

CalcioCalabrese said:

See - this is what I'm saying. I'll put together a thoughtful post and you come out calling people self appointed experts or elitist and snobbish.

I think you miss the point of a thread - it's for discussion. If you want to rant, that's fine. But if someone states a differing opinion, you're all over it like a rash.

How's that black kettle Mr Pot

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You completely misunderstood my post there Calcio.

For the record, I had absolutely no problem with your post! You were not looking to have your opinion validated, you were trying to help someone. How you could assume I was referring to you is beyond me.

Calm down and read what I said properly before jumping down my throat. I agree that the thread is for discussion, what I disagree with is people who tell other people they are stupid, crap at games or lacking in football knowledge simply because they think this game is not very good.

I really am becoming a target on here aren't I? No matter what I say!

Sorry mate but you used to jump on all my other posts and mine was directly above yours so...
lol

CalcioCalabrese said:

Sorry mate but you used to jump on all my other posts and mine was directly above yours so...
lol

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No problem mate!

Sure I've disagreed with you in the past but like I said, I dont hold grudges or dismiss people's posts out of hand no matter what they say because of who they are. I think I may even have agreed with Rom once or twice!

Your list of instructions for the guy who needed them were spot on, I may not think they're actually all that effective against the AI in the game but that's another story. You deserve nothing but credit for taking the time out to help the guy.

xPJRx said:

The classic 'Tango' ball - legendary!!
Fond memories (just) of the Mexico 86 world cup!! or kicking an air floater about with your mates like you said.

Lets get the Tango ball in PES13!!! ;-)

Click to expand...

I nearly bought that Tango ball yesterday funnily enough, it was on sale for £60 at Sports Direct. I ended up saving a bit of cash as there was a Mitre Ultimax for £45 in the sale. Great ball that.

pj_puttz said:

No problem mate!

Sure I've disagreed with you in the past but like I said, I dont hold grudges or dismiss people's posts out of hand no matter what they say because of who they are. I think I may even have agreed with Rom once or twice!

Your list of instructions for the guy who needed them were spot on, I may not think they're actually all that effective against the AI in the game but that's another story. You deserve nothing but credit for taking the time out to help the guy.

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That's ok mate. Cheers. Well from time to time, we can learn from each other

p.s. if you check out my video on the video thread, there's a move where I do the speed burst to cut inside two players in the box and square up the ball. I'll find out the time marker but you can do stuff against the AI

Check the OPE FC goal compilation on the last page of the video thread. At 2:06 and 2:13 roughly, you can see the little speed burst that's used to push past the middle of two defenders. It can be hard though, as the AI generally fouls you if you beat them for pace.

CalcioCalabrese said:

That's ok mate. Cheers. Well from time to time, we can learn from each other

p.s. if you check out my video on the video thread, there's a move where I do the speed burst to cut inside two players in the box and square up the ball. I'll find out the time marker but you can do stuff against the AI

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Yeah I know exactly the technique you mean about the speed burst thing and I agree there are one or two things that work against the AI but spamming the very small amount of techniques that do actually work is pretty boring I find.

I think that's why a lot of people dont like the game, they feel that it forces you to play a certain way most of the time. There is no real freedom and nearly every game plays out more or less the same way. I dont have a problem winning games, I have a problem enjoying the game. It's not a question of practice or technique or anything else, I simply find the game dull, shallow, repetitive, annoying, ugly and deeply unrewarding.

I cant speak for the people who are playing on PC using patches which change the game in certain ways, these are my observations on the PS3 version.

Frankly I believe anyone playing a heavily patched PC version isn't really playing Konami's version of PES at all. Even the version I play isn't technically Konami's version of PES because I have edited kits, leagues, player names, stadiums, formations etc. etc. etc. but that's another discussion altogether I suppose.

No well this is the thing even with FIFA. Even if you try different things, there's only so many different ways you can score a goal isn't there? Variety is one thing but having a good battle where even a scrappy goal makes you jump off the seat is good too. Like to win an important match.

Playing against another human always leads to more variety since they pull formations out of shape more than the AI tends to. But I play out of the box (option file used for kits and names though) and I find a good variety. You have to be really patient to see some different types of runs but in a way, it's rewarding when the ball goes in. For me anyway.

CalcioCalabrese said:

No well this is the thing even with FIFA. Even if you try different things, there's only so many different ways you can score a goal isn't there? Variety is one thing but having a good battle where even a scrappy goal makes you jump off the seat is good too. Like to win an important match.

Playing against another human always leads to more variety since they pull formations out of shape more than the AI tends to. But I play out of the box (option file used for kits and names though) and I find a good variety. You have to be really patient to see some different types of runs but in a way, it's rewarding when the ball goes in. For me anyway.

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I've been really enjoying FIFA this week, I said to myself to give it as much as a go as PES.

The trouble is now, I have progressed to Legendary, and just beat Man City 4-0! Apart from going manual and start tilting the sliders in the CPU's favour I think, and I am a little disappointed, that I've just 'got it'.

I kind of know the CPU patterns of attack almost to a tee now, even though when I first gave it a good bash earlier this week I thought the CPU on Legendary was the bees knees. I think this is the problem with FIFA. This year has been a bit of a learning curve for me, I must admit. But when you get to the moment in FIFA where you just 'get it', then it's very much game over. I'm sitting pretty now, top of my league and gone are the days when I've conceding those cheap CPU dribble past my defenders goals.

But like I say, it's more or less game over now. I don't want to be top of the league, smashing Man City 4-0 and it could have been 6 or 7.

As much as PES has its issues, I still can't 'master it' so to speak. I am now very good at it don't get me wrong, on Superstar mostly on zero assist, but just when you think you have it cracked you DO see something new. Today for example, I serenely beat Newcastle 2-0. Then played Lazio, at theirs, and they battered me, Doni had a blinder, but for periods of the second half I just couldn't get out of my half. This is what draws me back to PES, rails and all I think.

ccshopland said:

...As much as PES has its issues, I still can't 'master it' so to speak. I am now very good at it don't get me wrong, on Superstar mostly on zero assist, but just when you think you have it cracked you DO see something new. Today for example, I serenely beat Newcastle 2-0. Then played Lazio, at theirs, and they battered me, Doni had a blinder, but for periods of the second half I just couldn't get out of my half. This is what draws me back to PES, rails and all I think.

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I know what you mean. There's some good ebbs and flows on PES either within a match or from match to match. Some teams just destroy you while others can have their off days.

Jimmy G-Force said:

I nearly bought that Tango ball yesterday funnily enough, it was on sale for £60 at Sports Direct. I ended up saving a bit of cash as there was a Mitre Ultimax for £45 in the sale. Great ball that.

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Mitre!!! the choice ball of the championship!!
I bought a ball the other week, a Nike 'Classico' white and black panels, looks exactly like the classic ball in PES.

Is it just me? or do others like playing with a ball in PES where you can see the design, and as such, see the spin and movement on the ball?

The Classic and Puma Powerkat balls are great for that.

xPJRx said:

Mitre!!! the choice ball of the championship!!
I bought a ball the other week, a Nike 'Classico' white and black panels, looks exactly like the classic ball in PES.

Is it just me? or do others like playing with a ball in PES where you can see the design, and as such, see the spin and movement on the ball?

The Classic and Puma Powerkat balls are great for that.

Click to expand...

Yeah the classic was the best ball due to the lack of LOD in gameplay cams.

CalcioCalabrese said:

You have to be really patient to see some different types of runs but in a way, it's rewarding when the ball goes in. For me anyway.

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That is the weirdest thing of all for me on PES 2012, I get virtually no joy whatsoever from scoring a goal! That is the first time I have ever said that about a PES game. In fact it's the first time I've said that about nearly every football game I've played.

It's hard to explain but there's a feeling of almost complete detachment present in PES 2012 for me. I kept thinking it would go away after a good few plays but if anything it got worse.

I actually started to think I was just fed up with football games altogether but I had a go on PES 2011 at my mate's house recently and really enjoyed it so that isn't the case.

PES 2012 just leaves me cold and it has NEVER given me that "just one more game" feeling the rest of the series has.

Playing against a human opponent is marginally more enjoyable but the overall feeling of "meh" is still there at all times for me.

I think depth and any form of advanced technique are nothing more than illusions in this game. It never allows me to suspend my disbelief while playing it or make me believe it's anything like a real game of football. That is probably why even the simple joy of scoring a goal no longer exists for me in PES 2012.

Other than when the AI enters "god mode" (or whatever you want to call it) and dribbles the length of the pitch at breakneck speed with Kirk Broadfoot or someone of equally poor stats, nearly every game mainly consists of me attacking the AI's packed penalty box looking for an opening then trying to defend against it's ridiculously accurate long ball counter attacks using a player switching system which is random at the best of times and while watching my AI players actively try to avoid the ball while abandoning all positional sense no matter what formation or tactics I have selected.

How this is all somehow MY fault is beyond me.

PJ - do you think that PES12 dissapoints you so much because you expected so much more from it?
your level of expectation hasnt been met therefore mentally, the attachment to the game isnt there?
If so i dont think any amount of patches or tweaks is gonna make PES12 the game you want it to be, so might have to hold fire and just hope for better next year mate, thats if you still have interest in the series by then of course, your regular passionate posts on here would suggest you do?!

xPJRx said:

PJ - do you think that PES12 dissapoints you so much because you expected so much more from it?
your level of expectation hasnt been met therefore mentally, the attachment to the game isnt there?
If so i dont think any amount of patches or tweaks is gonna make PES12 the game you want it to be, so might have to hold fire and just hope for better next year mate, thats if you still have interest in the series by then of course, your regular passionate posts on here would suggest you do?!

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Cant speak for PJ but recently i have went back to PES 5 for my football fix on the 360, everything about it feels right which enables me to play more than 2 or 3 games at a time, For me PES 2012 is not getting the basic stuff right like shooting animations, running animations, passing animations and player positioning etc etc So when your hitting outside curlers with the inside of the players boot you totally lose any immersion you had. Or when every team plays like Stoke your left wondering why.

We need a game that replicates real life movement and no more ball attached to an invisible bit of string, Konami need to get the basics right and if they do for PES 2013 then the rest of the game should come along nicely.

xPJRx said:

PJ - do you think that PES12 dissapoints you so much because you expected so much more from it?
your level of expectation hasnt been met therefore mentally, the attachment to the game isnt there?
If so i dont think any amount of patches or tweaks is gonna make PES12 the game you want it to be, so might have to hold fire and just hope for better next year mate, thats if you still have interest in the series by then of course, your regular passionate posts on here would suggest you do?!

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Yeah I expected a lot more than I got but I dont think my demands were too high. It feels like they have downgraded pretty much every aspect of the game since PES 2011. The things I have mentioned in the post above are unforgivable in any game in this day and age.

I knew as soon as I played it that no amount of patches or tweaks could save the game for me. It's just too fundamentally flawed in my opinion.

The problem with me waiting till next year and a big part of the reason I'm so pissed off right now is that I have absolutely no faith in the direction Konami are taking with PES, if they even have one on this generation of consoles.

Of course I want PES to be great again but Konami have got a LOT of work to do to salvage PES from it's current state in just 12 months and I dont think they can do it. Mainly because I dont think they are willing to invest the time, resources and money required to give us the kind of game we deserve in PES 2013.

pj_puttz said:

That is the weirdest thing of all for me on PES 2012, I get virtually no joy whatsoever from scoring a goal! That is the first time I have ever said that about a PES game. In fact it's the first time I've said that about nearly every football game I've played.

It's hard to explain but there's a feeling of almost complete detachment present in PES 2012 for me. I kept thinking it would go away after a good few plays but if anything it got worse.

I actually started to think I was just fed up with football games altogether but I had a go on PES 2011 at my mate's house recently and really enjoyed it so that isn't the case.

PES 2012 just leaves me cold and it has NEVER given me that "just one more game" feeling the rest of the series has.

Playing against a human opponent is marginally more enjoyable but the overall feeling of "meh" is still there at all times for me.

I think depth and any form of advanced technique are nothing more than illusions in this game. It never allows me to suspend my disbelief while playing it or make me believe it's anything like a real game of football. That is probably why even the simple joy of scoring a goal no longer exists for me in PES 2012.

Other than when the AI enters "god mode" (or whatever you want to call it) and dribbles the length of the pitch at breakneck speed with Kirk Broadfoot or someone of equally poor stats, nearly every game mainly consists of me attacking the AI's packed penalty box looking for an opening then trying to defend against it's ridiculously accurate long ball counter attacks using a player switching system which is random at the best of times and while watching my AI players actively try to avoid the ball while abandoning all positional sense no matter what formation or tactics I have selected.

How this is all somehow MY fault is beyond me.

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Agree 100% with you, this is the first PES where I get absolutely no enjoyment from scoring goals. I think it comes to how weightless the balls feels, feels like I'm kicking a baloon. I've hit screamers before in 2012 but they didn't feel like screamers, if you know what I mean.

Also, I didn't expect too much from this game, just for it to be better than PES2011 which for me it isn't.

+1 for the no joy in scoring goals crowd. It's probably the animations as a whole that make you feel detached from the pitch.
I'm always looking forward to watching how my player is going to kick the ball in FIFA 12, or how he's going to move to set up the goal.







See my point? All these look like something that Ronaldinho would be able to pull off in real life. The animations are superb for the most part. There's maybe 3 or 4 animations that I dislike in FIFA, and this encompasses everything from shooting, to crossing, to passing. PES is a mess as far as having a life-like presentation. Look no further than one of Jimmy's goal videos, the animation looks horrible. Worse than PS2 PES even.



I love doing stuff like this, I don't abuse the skill stick, I use it in a manner that looks realistic. I never get to do this in PES.






(2011)


(2012)

This is the best I can do with PES. The game just looks horrible to watch. There's nothing in PES that even remotely resembles what happens on Saturday afternoon. Those gifs are all mine btw, in case you were wondering.

Im a bit of a 'tweener' here i think. In that i do play PES12 reguarly and enjoy it, but also agree with alot of what everyone is saying regards the animations, movement etc.
Tactically the game is very rich and deep and can be rewarding. But on a basic level, so much isnt quite right, and i think thats what frustrates people so much.
It does annoy me that you cant play a first time lofted through ball, try it, it will limp 2 yards in front of you, it annoys me that the R2 controlled shot animation is almost missing and instead you just see the player show his instep and the ball leave it, like its teleporting towards goal, rather than seeing the player open his body up, steady his instep and strike through the ball. And it REALLY REALLY does annoy me that the shooting is so erratic and often ignores my input.
On the same token i do enjoy scoring goals and the general ML experience, even though that mode in itself is a shadow of what it has been previously.

Thats why I have kept quiet during all the back n forth debate and slagging thats been going on, because nobody is lying, If jimmy or Rom or anyone else says theyre enjoying the game thats cool, they obviously do, and good for them, i do too, but people like Flaw3d and PJ obviously dont enjoy it and cant 'live within' what the game does do well, and why should they, as others may be able to. So i think alot of the slating for criticising the game has been unfair, but can see everyones opinions on the game and agree with bits and pieces of them all.

As i said, I enjoy PES12, but also admit it has many many faults and issues, and year after year we have had the same old thing, PES is ok,m has issues, but wil be good next year, rinse and repeat, that can only go on so long.
I reserve judgment on the future of PES, not until ive played the demo come September, but when I have had a few hrs with the actual retail version which we all know, is a far cry from what we are demo'd !

Thats all.

The things that piss me off and the feeling I have of anger toward KONAMI is increasing at a rate of knots I'm afraid. The more the community does to iron out a poor out of the box game only compounds this feeling for me.

Take the blur effect for example; I mean WTF were KONAMI thinking. Did they think that blurring the players and graphics on a pristine PS3 attached to a 50" plasma was a good idea. So someone had to make a fix for this, at least on PC. Then the grass is sometimes so horrible and night games look like shit. Where's the vibrant night games of PES 2010 for example? So people had to make HD textures and turfs.

Then it took KONAMI THREE patches to get the keepers to be of Under 12's level, with them trying to pull the wool over out eyes in one of the middle patches by making every shot go central.

Now people are trying to make the gameplay better by tweaking everything from the shooting, to the passing, to the way the ball is kicked, and the way the players move. The fact that we have a modding community producing patches in the region of about 150 patches thus far for gameplay alone shows just how much needs to be improved.

But the more the modding community do, it just continues to highlight the ineptitude of KONAMI.

There's a camera tool for example; why isn't this in the game? Why is there only a certain amount of League spaces for example? Why was the graphics blur, why is there inconsistency in the passing bars, why is the grass so shit and night games so shit graphically? Why is there so much ludicrous scripting going on? Why is 'professional' deemed balanced (although your own possession goes to like 80%) and Top Player like playing a team of Maradona's and why is Superstar more balanced than Top Player?!?!? Why sometimes (even after ALL on here claim to hit the perfect shot ALL the time) does the shooting not go bottom left but top right? Where's the low drive gone, the crux of shooting?

Oh man...I could go on...

The fact is, in this day and age I want to just sit back, chill the fk out, flick my PS3 on, and play something that I don't need to spend 1000 hours of editing on. My PS3 is more or less gathering dust.

I shouldn't have to buy two versions on the PS3, a PC, version, download this and that and manually copy over a thousand game files with Chimps' excellent stuff, and I shouldn't have to literally spend half my FKIN life stuck to a PC just to get the game to function as it should! Which is exactly what I have been doing since October!

I am getting to the point where I am just thinking fk it!

I really, really take my hat off to all the people in this great community, I really do. All the graphics guys, gameplay guys, etc etc, you really are stars. But I feel my race is near enough complete, I have invested so much time doing this and that this year, that it really is getting to the stage where enough is enough. I even brought my PS2 down the other day but I thought I'd give PES just one more go on the PS3....a dodgy goal later (a scripted goal straight after I score with the first attack anyone?), and it was back off at the mains - I may just take my PS2 up on the offer after all!

The bottom line is trying to get PES 2012 to play like a simulation is proving impossible. What it is, is a fun game if played like I think it was designed to be played, and that's as fast as possible in an arcade style.

xPJRx said:

Im a bit of a 'tweener' here i think. In that i do play PES12 reguarly and enjoy it, but also agree with alot of what everyone is saying regards the animations, movement etc.
Tactically the game is very rich and deep and can be rewarding. But on a basic level, so much isnt quite right, and i think thats what frustrates people so much.
It does annoy me that you cant play a first time lofted through ball, try it, it will limp 2 yards in front of you, it annoys me that the R" controlled shot animation is almost missing and instead you just see the player show his insetp and the ball leave it, like its teleporting towards goal, rather than seeing the player open his body up, steady his instep and strike through the ball. And it REALLY REALLY does annoy me that the shooting is so erratic and often ignores my input.
On the same token i do enjoy scoring goals and the general ML experience, even though that mode in itself is a shadow of what it has been previously.

Thats why I have kept quiet during all the back n forth debate and slagging thats been going on, because nobody is lying, If jimmy or Rom or anyone else says theyre enjoying the game thats cool, they obviously do, and good for them, i do too, but people like Flaw3d and PJ obviously dont enjoy it and cant 'live within' what the game does do well, and why should they, as others may be able to. So i think alot of the slating for criticising the game has been unfair, but can see everyones opinions on the game and agree with bits and pieces of them all.

As i said, I enjoy PES12, but also admit it has many many faults and issues, and year after year we have had the same old thing, PES is ok,m has issues, but wil be good next year, rinse and repeat, that can only go on so long.
I reserve judgment on the future of PES, not until ive played the demo come September, but when I have had a few hrs with the actual retail version which we all know, is a far cry from what we are demo'd !

Thats all.

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Konami need to stop making the game in August, That way we will have a better game and it also means they should be able to get it out before Fifa which surly Konami must try and do to create better sales.

Jimmy G-Force said:

I nearly bought that Tango ball yesterday funnily enough, it was on sale for £60 at Sports Direct. I ended up saving a bit of cash as there was a Mitre Ultimax for £45 in the sale. Great ball that.

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I always really liked Mitre balls.

Yep, Old School,, still the best for me.

This forum is really going downhill, looking at this thread.

I mean pj_puttz, why is he still here? didn't anyone realize he's has nothing better to do all day but argue, i knew this back in October when he lost an argument against my because his posts just turned into petulant insults rather than staying on topic for no reason. He ain't gonna listen to nobody, his goal is just for everyone to be miserable as him. That's the truth. He won't stop until everyone hates the game as much as he does.

Jimmy, your a great poster but people aren't going to like this game. their perspectives are all over the place. They don't even know it. There's just no point talking. there's more important hings going on in the world. really man, why waste all your energy? It's not worth it, your just coming across in the wrong way.

There are people being beheaded in Lybia for the colour of their skin. The Elite are thinking of more and more ways to take our freedom away from us with NDAA, google etc..

But we are moaning about not being good at video games and not liking them? We are moaning because we cannot bare the thought that we aren't good at a video game so it's rubbish? We have to say it's all broken, rather than properly find what the root cause of whats broken in it. So it makes us feel better?

The best way to enjoy PES! Get off this forum! Stop listening to so much negativity and play with an open mind. I'm back since i have a week off, to post updated tactics from arsenal and see when the January transfer update is out this month if it comes out at all. That's it.

I'm not going to bother with much because video games really are not important at all. and even my topics and discussions and threads which are meant to get the best out of the realsim in the game. Nobody seems to care, nobody seems to want teams to play like they do in real life. So ok, i won't bother either. not that it matters

Shikashi said:

+1 for the no joy in scoring goals crowd. It's probably the animations as a whole that make you feel detached from the pitch.
I'm always looking forward to watching how my player is going to kick the ball in FIFA 12, or how he's going to move to set up the goal.

See my point? All these look like something that Ronaldinho would be able to pull off in real life. The animations are superb for the most part. There's maybe 3 or 4 animations that I dislike in FIFA, and this encompasses everything from shooting, to crossing, to passing. PES is a mess as far as having a life-like presentation. Look no further than one of Jimmy's goal videos, the animation looks horrible. Worse than PS2 PES even.

I love doing stuff like this, I don't abuse the skill stick, I use it in a manner that looks realistic. I never get to do this in PES.

(2011)

(2012)

This is the best I can do with PES. The game just looks horrible to watch. There's nothing in PES that even remotely resembles what happens on Saturday afternoon. Those gifs are all mine btw, in case you were wondering.

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That's interesting because i think what you look for is aesthetic realsim in a game. Crowds, animations, noise, etc.. not the hardcore tactical stuff and player individuality which PES specializes in especially these days. So it's obviously your going to love FIFA.

My question is why the hell you expect PES to cope with FIFA in animations and aesthetics. FIFA has fifty times the budget PES does, FIFA has tons and tones of licensees! It has a far bigger development team. I mean it's fine you prefer his game. Just why hammer PES for things it can't do?

I hammer FIFA for it's generic build with it's first touch and lack of momentum and inertia which makes every player move so dam perfect so you have too much control and it's too easy and fantasy like. Not to mention the scripted sweetspot goals, the hundreds of bugs, far more than even PES which is very bad for bugs. Even when you use slider, it's still the same crap, just slow. Thing is EA could fix this if they want, PES just don't have the money to do the animations you want.

I seen your other posts and well, that's cool, your opinion is yours and there''s nothing wrong with what you say only thing I'd say against you is PES on the PS2 having better animations than PES 2012 now is just rubbish! Pure rubbish, your just being glass half full about everything in PES 2012 to place in your argument.

anyway this post is about really showing how peoples perspectives are just all over the place. Which is why I'm never here!