The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

Which PES 2012 version do you prefer?

  • Total voters
    233
  • Poll closed .
ccshopland said:
I'm considering going back through them all lol, there must be a good next gen game in the somewhere....
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I picked up PES2010 today from GAME for 40p. Crazy. It's actually pretty fun and has far nicer graphics. Somehow the CPU could retain the ball better than the later games and the game mostly takes place in midfield which is great.

It's not brilliant but I hear the ML is great in this version too. It's the only PES I'd never previously bought so for less than the cost of a chocolate bar it's not bad value!
 
LTFC said:
I picked up PES2010 today from GAME for 40p. Crazy. It's actually pretty fun and has far nicer graphics. Somehow the CPU could retain the ball better than the later games and the game mostly takes place in midfield which is great.

It's not brilliant but I hear the ML is great in this version too. It's the only PES I'd never previously bought so for less than the cost of a chocolate bar it's not bad value!
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Ah, memories with my Sunderland ML adventure. I've been rooting for Sunderland ever since lol.

They do retain the ball yes but sometimes a bit too much and keep passing it back to defence.

It's still a good game though, but you might find it frustrating because it's not as responsive as 2012.
 
Lami said:
Ah, memories with my Sunderland ML adventure. I've been rooting for Sunderland ever since lol.

They do retain the ball yes but sometimes a bit too much and keep passing it back to defence.

It's still a good game though, but you might find it frustrating because it's not as responsive as 2012.
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See, how can a title go back so far in one aspect?!?

You had PES 2010, in which the CPU kept the ball in defence sometimes for pointless lengths, but which I prefer for realism over constant dribbling. Then in PES 2011 you had the CPU keeping the possession and passing back/sideways probably about the right amount. If only the CPU could hold onto possession up the pitch more and the end game stat for possession could have been about 55-45% it would have been perfect.

And now PES has seemingly gone back miles in this department, with everyone and his dog becoming a dribble monster, genetically programmed to go from A-B in as little moves as possible. This leads to this - human player retreating, bottle necking the CPU on or around the penalty area, counter attack, human player bottle-necked on CPU penalty area, counter attack....x 1000

Because pressure cannot be applied up the pitch by the human player, you have to give the CPU three quarters of the pitch, so the game is bound to be a counter attack fest. And because the rules that govern the CPU build up and the computer build up are on totally different levels, it seems too easy for the CPU to get from A to B whilst the human has to play 'normal football'.

For me, the CPU's inability to play anything that resembles proper football (on an unmodded game) is a game breaker. They would rather run out on the touchline than give a simple ball back and keep possession...how has this area gone backwards?!? Surely it's just improving already realistic possession code?!?

Play PES5/6....watch how the CPU moves the ball with an aim and purpose, to manufacture and move the human about. So there's a tactical trade off....they keep possession deep and pass it about, and you either press or be patient. Both the CPU and human play off the same set of earthly rules; if human doesn't press then keep passing, if human presses then react by moving the ball along. This makes for a far more detailed, complex, tactical game because actions have reactions.

In PES 2012, there's no depth to this. The human cannot press high up the pitch and curtail the CPU, and the CPU don't have to play possession to draw the human; why would they when they can just dribble as direct as possible?!?

This is a major problem in my book. I don't want the CPU dumbed down; far from it. What I want is for the CPU to have to do what I do, and move the ball around, sometimes slowly, sometimes at pace. Sometimes forwards, sometimes backwards, sometimes sideways.

The modders on the PC are starting to do a very good job of getting the CPU to play some football. Yesterday I had a 2-2 draw with Wigan using beta3 of Yair's latest effort. Their second was pure class, a brilliant passing move that I haven't seen before, one touch, quick and completely split the defence.

I DON'T CARE CONCEDING GOALS LIKE THAT - I really don't. My objections come when Heskey dances like Fred Astaire past Agger and Skrtel, before rifling a glory goal into the roof of the net, when IRL he would have fallen over or something.

PES 2013 needs to be far deeper in terms of tactics and the CPU having the same set of rules as the human in their need t pass the ball and keep possession. I am yearning for a game where I play Barcelona, they keep 70% possession, and I'm chasing the ball for ninety minutes. That would be footballing heaven.
 
Why's 2008 not in your list? :(

Seriously though, I know 2008 have been slated like no other, but the game does have it's many positives, and one of them is AI possession.

Some will say all you do is run, but you can do that in other PES's too. Apart from this, which I only use to take advantage of space obviously, and the funny running animation, and the almost bullet-like long passing from side to side (thought I feel it's a bit better on the 360), the passing game in 2008 is pretty good.

Every PES game has it's pros and cons, but when will we have that one game that has the pros of ALL PES games combined and rid of ALL cons?
 
While waiting for my PES 2011 Platinum copy to come in the mail, I decided to give PES 2012 one last go yesterday. Always bearing in mind how I need to be patient in my defending.
I played a Copa Libertadores with Fluminense and things went smooth in the first 3 games. Then I struggled against America-MEX and lost twice, but qualified for the knockout stages by winning a tricky away match against Nacional-URU.
This was again on Top Player.
But apart from the realistic results, the gameplay wasn't as nearly satisfying as before in previous versions. I had to score some arcadey unrealistic goals and despite defending accordingly, using contain a lot and defending patiently, there's no way to stop the CPU dribbling past you sometimes. And what's worse, whether I go in a challenge with R2 or X, or simply don't press any buttons, there are too many fouls! The ref gives way too many fouls in this game and most of them happen just by being in contact with the opponent without pressing any buttons.

Then you know what happens, the CPU is deadly on free kicks, I also got a penalty against me... I hardly ever get penalties for myself.

I got knocked out by Internacional in the quarterfinals having won the first leg away. But after I went 1-0 up the CPU went beserk as usual. I knew the scripting was kicking in, they equalised, and I tried to keep my cool and defend carefully, but ultimately I ended up being too careful, afraid to concede a FK on the edge of my box. As a result the CPU cut inside and dribbled past my containing defender, his doubling teammate and fired in a shot while 2 other useless AI defenders were just watching it happen.

There's no way I can get used to it, this game is badly broken. The CPU dribbler is unstoppable and that's all there is to it. You just have to contain, call for backup, pray and brace yourself, while hoping they will make a mistake with a pass or shoot it wide off target.

Another thing that pisses me right off is the poor movement of our AI teammates in attacking plays. There are no clever movements, no runs between the defenders. Even our full backs take ages to realise that is actually a good idea to overlap and give an option to your centreback in possession. It seems really ruined to me.
As a matter of fact, I think that's the main reason why they implemented this half-arsed lame system where you control a second attacker to make a run.
I think the developers realised just how poor the open play off-the-ball movement was and it wasn't getting any better as the release date got closer and closer... so they introduced this dodgy feature.

Well this game is just awful, definitely not for me.

Now at least PES 2011 is on its way and I will finally get some decent single player experience. I think PES 2011 was the most well balanced, in terms of AI behaviour with the ball, possession and all that... And also the passing and dribbling was so much better. For me PES 2011 is the best one in this generation and I will probably keep playing it until next generation by the looks of it.
 
Rentboy said:
While waiting for my PES 2011 Platinum copy to come in the mail, I decided to give PES 2012 one last go yesterday. Always bearing in mind how I need to be patient in my defending.
I played a Copa Libertadores with Fluminense and things went smooth in the first 3 games. Then I struggled against America-MEX and lost twice, but qualified for the knockout stages by winning a tricky away match against Nacional-URU.
This was again on Top Player.
But apart from the realistic results, the gameplay wasn't as nearly satisfying as before in previous versions. I had to score some arcadey unrealistic goals and despite defending accordingly, using contain a lot and defending patiently, there's no way to stop the CPU dribbling past you sometimes. And what's worse, whether I go in a challenge with R2 or X, or simply don't press any buttons, there are too many fouls! The ref gives way too many fouls in this game and most of them happen just by being in contact with the opponent without pressing any buttons.

Then you know what happens, the CPU is deadly on free kicks, I also got a penalty against me... I hardly ever get penalties for myself.

I got knocked out by Internacional in the quarterfinals having won the first leg away. But after I went 1-0 up the CPU went beserk as usual. I knew the scripting was kicking in, they equalised, and I tried to keep my cool and defend carefully, but ultimately I ended up being too careful, afraid to concede a FK on the edge of my box. As a result the CPU cut inside and dribbled past my containing defender, his doubling teammate and fired in a shot while 2 other useless AI defenders were just watching it happen.

There's no way I can get used to it, this game is badly broken. The CPU dribbler is unstoppable and that's all there is to it. You just have to contain, call for backup, pray and brace yourself, while hoping they will make a mistake with a pass or shoot it wide off target.

Another thing that pisses me right off is the poor movement of our AI teammates in attacking plays. There are no clever movements, no runs between the defenders. Even our full backs take ages to realise that is actually a good idea to overlap and give an option to your centreback in possession. It seems really ruined to me.
As a matter of fact, I think that's the main reason why they implemented this half-arsed lame system where you control a second attacker to make a run.
I think the developers realised just how poor the open play off-the-ball movement was and it wasn't getting any better as the release date got closer and closer... so they introduced this dodgy feature.

Well this game is just awful, definitely not for me.

Now at least PES 2011 is on its way and I will finally get some decent single player experience. I think PES 2011 was the most well balanced, in terms of AI behaviour with the ball, possession and all that... And also the passing and dribbling was so much better. For me PES 2011 is the best one in this generation and I will probably keep playing it until next generation by the looks of it.
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I loved PES 2011 with all its flaws. There were a lot of haters out there during this game, but I think in terms of simulation, it was very close to the mark. You can diss some things and I won't argue, but fundamentally, the attack v defence was excellent with a real midfield fight, shooting felt good, passing consistent, through balls were good. Looking back, scripting is probably worse this year than last, and in 2011 the CPU did something really, really special....they passed the ball about. And get this....they even passed the ball sideways and backwards!

Downsides are that with patches etc and graphics enhancement the game became sluggish and in certain stadia - like nightime rain. So sometimes -2 played okay and sometimes the players took an hour to turn. And at Top Player, sometimes the pressure was unbearably 'hunt you down'. But I feel it's gone too much in favour of the attackers and dribbling now.

Although with patches on PC, 2012 is very good in trying to make the game more balanced.
 
Hello everybody. This is what I think:

The biggest with pes (this version specially) is not the cheating ai. C-ai has always been a part of we/pes since the psx days. In older games, any defender with crappy speed was able to reach your player (with 19 speed and 19 acceleration).

The MAIN problem with newer PESs is the DUMB ai YOUR TEAM gets. When you increase difficulty in a classic pes your ai gets upgraded too and you can PROPOSE something. You can still win the match because your team is Smart enough to counter-arrest the "cheating" opposition.

The "fix" is lowering the difficulty level (not a real solution but w.e.)

And yes, I'd like to see a BETTER representation of individuality.

Greetings from Argentina.
 
ccshopland said:
I loved PES 2011 with all its flaws. There were a lot of haters out there during this game, but I think in terms of simulation, it was very close to the mark. You can diss some things and I won't argue, but fundamentally, the attack v defence was excellent with a real midfield fight, shooting felt good, passing consistent, through balls were good. Looking back, scripting is probably worse this year than last, and in 2011 the CPU did something really, really special....they passed the ball about. And get this....they even passed the ball sideways and backwards!

Downsides are that with patches etc and graphics enhancement the game became sluggish and in certain stadia - like nightime rain. So sometimes -2 played okay and sometimes the players took an hour to turn. And at Top Player, sometimes the pressure was unbearably 'hunt you down'. But I feel it's gone too much in favour of the attackers and dribbling now.

Although with patches on PC, 2012 is very good in trying to make the game more balanced.
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For me 2011 was really good but it had to grow on me. Because I wasn't playing with analog sticks before, so it was a great shock at first.
But it is a very good game overall, where the stats of your players actually meant something. I remember scoring a few proper belters from far out with Schwarz on Master League. Now shooting in 2012 looks just wrong - like it was in WE8/PES6, but at least I got used to it after time, and this time around I'm not adjusting.

I agree there was much more proper midfield play back in 2011, and the CPU played along very nicely, sometimes even long balls from one side of the pitch to the other.
The passing went downhill in 2012. In 2011 it felt great and effective. People criticised the power of through balls, but I learned to deal with it pretty quickly using super cancel and closing passing lanes, intercepting long through balls.
I think a through ball was in 2011 just what it is in reality. If it is rightly timed and weighted, it's a killer. And anyways I'd much rather have a game centred around passing than what we see the CPU doing to us, cutting inside everyone.

As for using gameplay patches, as much as I appreciate the effort of the people behind it, I'm against that. I won't try it mainly because it is the job of those knobheads at KONAMI, they have to deliver something decent and playable - and differently from the old days, now they have a chance to patch it up themselves. Think about the great PES games they've released in the past without having a chance to correct it. It must have been much more pressure, but also meant that they did it much more carefully than nowadays.

There was a time when KONAMI didn't release PES/WE always at the same time. I guess they did it when the game felt really ready. And they even released another version around April or May, a Liveware Evolution edition or something...

Well now they keep releasing it together with FIFA, not realising this is pointless, as this is a battle they've already lost. They have been slaughtered on sales figures, forget it and get back to your roots KONAMI!

So I'm not trying those gameplay patches... I only use patches for adding graphics and other elements to the game to improve the atmosphere - seeing how they have licensing problems. But as for gameplay, I won't go there. I'd better go back to a decent game and use this PES 2012 disc to throw as freesbie to my dog :P
 
supriri said:
Hello everybody. This is what I think:

The biggest with pes (this version specially) is not the cheating ai. C-ai has always been a part of we/pes since the psx days. In older games, any defender with crappy speed was able to reach your player (with 19 speed and 19 acceleration).

The MAIN problem with newer PESs is the DUMB ai YOUR TEAM gets. When you increase difficulty in a classic pes your ai gets upgraded too and you can PROPOSE something. You can still win the match because your team is Smart enough to counter-arrest the "cheating" opposition.

The "fix" is lowering the difficulty level (not a real solution but w.e.)

And yes, I'd like to see a BETTER representation of individuality.

Greetings from Argentina.
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I agree 100% with this. Although I have been very vocal about the faulty aspects of 2012, I forced myself to deal with it on superstar difficulty. It's been an exercise in frustration, but I can now win consistently against the CPU by exploiting the system.

What I realized in the end, however, is that fighting the game like that takes all the fun out of it. So I tried the game on professional level (I believe this is the level where every player is at default stats), and I must say that has made the game immensely more fun for me. All of a sudden I can see the good things about 2012 and what an improvement it is from 2011.

Professional is beyond doubt the "hardest" difficulty that the game is designed to be played at. The way that 2012 is designed, unlike 2011, stat boosting totally breaks the game. This makes me wonder if the huge discrepancy with how the game has been received is due to people playing on higher difficulties. I must admit I was a victim of this as well.


Concerning off the ball movement on setpieces. They should revise the system. The way it works right now it is really obvious who to mark, and it takes all the skills out of the kick taker. What they should do is let you set the direction and the power of the ball. And then switch to the off the ball movement view, but the kicker does not take the kick until you press a "signal button".

This way you keep the free kick skill aspect, and it also confuses the defense (the guy you are controlling may or may not be running to where the ball is placed), which is really the point behind the off the ball movement system.


There are many other small issues that I think Konami should and can fix, and after playing the game without the game breaking factor, the future of PES just became much brighter for me.
 
Srider said:
I agree 100% with this. Although I have been very vocal about the faulty aspects of 2012, I forced myself to deal with it on superstar difficulty. It's been an exercise in frustration, but I can now win consistently against the CPU by exploiting the system.

What I realized in the end, however, is that fighting the game like that takes all the fun out of it. So I tried the game on professional level (I believe this is the level where every player is at default stats), and I must say that has made the game immensely more fun for me. All of a sudden I can see the good things about 2012 and what an improvement it is from 2011.

Professional is beyond doubt the "hardest" difficulty that the game is designed to be played at. The way that 2012 is designed, unlike 2011, stat boosting totally breaks the game. This makes me wonder if the huge discrepancy with how the game has been received is due to people playing on higher difficulties. I must admit I was a victim of this as well.


Concerning off the ball movement on setpieces. They should revise the system. The way it works right now it is really obvious who to mark, and it takes all the skills out of the kick taker. What they should do is let you set the direction and the power of the ball. And then switch to the off the ball movement view, but the kicker does not take the kick until you press a "signal button".

This way you keep the free kick skill aspect, and it also confuses the defense (the guy you are controlling may or may not be running to where the ball is placed), which is really the point behind the off the ball movement system.


There are many other small issues that I think Konami should and can fix, and after playing the game without the game breaking factor, the future of PES just became much brighter for me.
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I'm starting to agree with this.

I have proven to myself that I can 'beat' Superstar, so I feel that I don't have to do anything more, in my little own world.

It's coming to a point where simply beating the CPU is not for me, and I want the game to unravel many more things to me on an equal footing.

The problem I have with professional is that the CPU doesn't retain possession as well, which for me has become the number one priority in this game.

And then you have to try and juggle the patches to suit your player settings, may be this patch is perfect at professional but too hard/not realistic at Superstar, or may be a patch fits well with Superstar but is too easy at professional.

I don't know, my head is spinning with this game at the moment, so may be it's time to start enjoying the damn game for once instead of just beating it.
 
For years and years I think the general consensus was that the "5 star" difficulty was the top level, whereas the "6 stars" that we could unlock on WE Shop was the 5 stars with extra cheating for the AI. Many people and myself included had this opinion that the Super Star level didn't have a smarter and more sophisticated AI to beat you, it was only more of the same with more scripting.

Now, more than 6 or 7 years later with PES 2012, look at what we came to. The cheating comes in form of indomitable dribbling skills by the AI, plus your AI teammates become more and more stupid.

I could try the same and play this on Professional level, but after almost 15 years playing the series it doesn't seem right to me.
Whenever I got a new version of WE/PES through the years, I jumped straight to the second highest level of difficulty straight away, only to adjust to the new version, because I was an advanced player of this game. After some time I "upgraded" to the highest level, 6 stars, Super Star or whatever you call it. And by the time I began to get really good and dominate the CPU at the highest level, it was almost time a new version of the game was coming to the market. That cycle used to work for me.
Oh, and whilst improving in those previous games, I used to get a real kick out of it.

Now look at us, this game is on the market for 6 months and instead of progressing through levels and mastering the game, while really enjoying it, we are receding to a lower level just to have a more rewarding experience. Crazy shit, isn't it? :LOL:
I think this speaks volumes, really.
 
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LTFC said:
I picked up PES2010 today from GAME for 40p. Crazy. It's actually pretty fun and has far nicer graphics. Somehow the CPU could retain the ball better than the later games and the game mostly takes place in midfield which is great.

It's not brilliant but I hear the ML is great in this version too. It's the only PES I'd never previously bought so for less than the cost of a chocolate bar it's not bad value!
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It's not bad is it? I have fond memories of PES2010 and remember it as a pretty solid title. It probably feels stiff and limited compared to PES2011/12 but it was an all-round decent game. The shooting was very satisfying and the graphics were sharp and vivid.
 
Rentboy said:
For years and years I think the general consensus was that the "5 star" difficulty was the top level, whereas the "6 stars" that we could unlock on WE Shop was the 5 stars with extra cheating for the AI. Many people and myself included had this opinion that the Super Star level didn't have a smarter and more sophisticated AI to beat you, it was only more of the same with more scripting.

Now, more than 6 or 7 years later with PES 2012, look at what we came to. The cheating comes in form of indomitable dribbling skills by the AI, plus your AI teammates become more and more stupid.

I could try the same and play this on Professional level, but after almost 15 years playing the series it doesn't seem right to me.
Whenever I got a new version of WE/PES through the years, I jumped straight to the second highest level of difficulty straight away, only to adjust to the new version, because I was an advanced player of this game. After some time I "upgraded" to the highest level, 6 stars, Super Star or whatever you call it. And by the time I began to get really good and dominate the CPU at the highest level, it was almost time a new version of the game was coming to the market. That cycle used to work for me.
Oh, and whilst improving in those previous games, I used to get a real kick out of it.

Now look at us, this game is on the market for 6 months and instead of progressing through levels and mastering the game, while really enjoying it, we are receding to a lower level just to have a more rewarding experience. Crazy shit, isn't it? :LOL:
I think this speaks volumes, really.
Click to expand...


Tru dat, tru dat
 
Rentboy said:
For years and years I think the general consensus was that the "5 star" difficulty was the top level, whereas the "6 stars" that we could unlock on WE Shop was the 5 stars with extra cheating for the AI. Many people and myself included had this opinion that the Super Star level didn't have a smarter and more sophisticated AI to beat you, it was only more of the same with more scripting.

Now, more than 6 or 7 years later with PES 2012, look at what we came to. The cheating comes in form of indomitable dribbling skills by the AI, plus your AI teammates become more and more stupid.

I could try the same and play this on Professional level, but after almost 15 years playing the series it doesn't seem right to me.
Whenever I got a new version of WE/PES through the years, I jumped straight to the second highest level of difficulty straight away, only to adjust to the new version, because I was an advanced player of this game. After some time I "upgraded" to the highest level, 6 stars, Super Star or whatever you call it. And by the time I began to get really good and dominate the CPU at the highest level, it was almost time a new version of the game was coming to the market. That cycle used to work for me.
Oh, and whilst improving in those previous games, I used to get a real kick out of it.

Now look at us, this game is on the market for 6 months and instead of progressing through levels and mastering the game, while really enjoying it, we are receding to a lower level just to have a more rewarding experience. Crazy shit, isn't it? :LOL:
I think this speaks volumes, really.
Click to expand...

This isn't new btw.

I've been doing this since the PS2. Superstar or Top Player were always easy for me, because I realized that on these highest levels all CPU players do is run at me in packs, meaning leaving behind so much space and countless 1-1s. It was too easy for me, making me turn to Professional which always had the best balance.
 
Rentboy said:
For years and years I think the general consensus was that the "5 star" difficulty was the top level, whereas the "6 stars" that we could unlock on WE Shop was the 5 stars with extra cheating for the AI. Many people and myself included had this opinion that the Super Star level didn't have a smarter and more sophisticated AI to beat you, it was only more of the same with more scripting.
Click to expand...

This is very true. Unlocking a 'superstar' level will always provide an artificially 'harder' AI, partly because it's an unlockable for those who want a harder challenge in the first place. To that end, it will always consist of stat boosting that is designed to work against you. That's not a criticism of it, it's a specifically tough setting that is effectively hidden until you decide to unlock it and try it. It's not strictly designed to be in the main game as such, so it isn't going to offer any advancements in AI etc. If it did, it wouldn't be hidden away as an unlockable difficulty level. I think of it the same as playing, say, a FPS on some insane hardcore difficulty setting that very few bother trying to play. It's there, it's artificially hard, and it's there for those who like crazy hard challenges.

Jamezinho said:
It's not bad is it? I have fond memories of PES2010 and remember it as a pretty solid title. It probably feels stiff and limited compared to PES2011/12 but it was an all-round decent game. The shooting was very satisfying and the graphics were sharp and vivid.
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It's not bad, no, just dated. It's graphically the best in the series so far for sure, the animations aren't actually that bad and I'll get a bit of gameplay out of it. Where it does feel dated though is mainly in the passing, it's so automated and on rails that at first it's really jarring. Having been playing FIFA12 on manual controls recently, trying to hit a short pass to the left then seeing the game get confused and override your pass, making him smack the ball to someone else thirty yards away, can be annoying.

All in all though it is enjoyable. A little too fast for my liking, with no speed options, but overall a decent game even now. I do like the way most of the game feels like a midfield battle rather than PES2012's, and 2011's constant feeling of one team counter attacking in one big wave, then the other countering, then back again etc. It feels like 2010 had many of the details slightly wrong but the overall flow of a football match a little better maybe.

Still, for 40p I can't complain!
 
LTFC said:
It's graphically the best in the series so far for sure, the animations aren't actually that bad
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Klashman made a couple of good Youtube videos about this issue. PES2010 had some really nice, clever and unique animations which were more of a throwback to what PES was always famed for, but for whatever reason the depth of animations has been slimmed down in PES2011/12.
 
Yeah 2010 had alot of really nice animations which completely disappeared from 2011 & 2012. You have to wonder why Konami dont like to build on things.
 
lol professional is the hardest difficulty... and the most fixed to make every match tense
Whooooo I'm so impressed KONAMI
This reminds me that I win easier against a good team than against a shitty team. For some reason, bad teams defend like they are Italy in the 60's. Flawless
Why? Because there is less space and AI runs are triggered by space.

Even a team with lousy physics statistics run & pressure 90 minutes like the were Barca on speed.
pauze the game and switch side and it's the same.
 
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LTFC said:
This is very true. Unlocking a 'superstar' level will always provide an artificially 'harder' AI, partly because it's an unlockable for those who want a harder challenge in the first place. To that end, it will always consist of stat boosting that is designed to work against you. That's not a criticism of it, it's a specifically tough setting that is effectively hidden until you decide to unlock it and try it. It's not strictly designed to be in the main game as such, so it isn't going to offer any advancements in AI etc. If it did, it wouldn't be hidden away as an unlockable difficulty level. I think of it the same as playing, say, a FPS on some insane hardcore difficulty setting that very few bother trying to play. It's there, it's artificially hard, and it's there for those who like crazy hard challenges.
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Indeed, I didn't mean to criticise the 6 Star level (Super Star), cause I haven't even played it yet (and won't do that to be honest).
The thing is, it's sad to see how they have allowed the same happen to Top Player (the standard highest level). This was meant to be "organically" harder, but the difference between Top Player and Professional is cheating, scripting and stat boosting.
What gets on my nerves is seeing how KONAMI was raving about their new AI. It's the worst AI I remember seeing in a PES/WE version.
On the back of its box it says "Can you Play?" almost aware that is some sort of ultimate challenge. They should have rephrased it to "Do you dare playing this on SuperStar?" NO! :LOL:


Blanco said:
lol professional is the hardest difficulty... and the most fixed to make every match tense
Whooooo I'm so impressed KONAMI
This reminds me that I win easier against a good team than against a shitty team. For some reason, bad teams defend like they are Italy in the 60's. Flawless
Why? Because there is less space and AI runs are triggered by space.

Even a team with lousy physics statistics run & pressure 90 minutes like the were Barca on speed.
pauze the game and switch side and it's the same.
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I have been having the same impression about smaller teams for a long time now. In PES 2011 in my ML sometimes I struggled (and lost a few times) against teams fighting relegation, while hammering the likes of Milan 4-0. I don't know what it is, if the AI compensated the lack of ability of those teams, or if they concentrated more on defence against my team.

What I do notice on PES 2012 is that the CPU does not suffer from fatigue during the match.
You can put some fresh legs in your attack, they will be playing against the same defenders who are there from the start but they will never be tired. It's uncanny.
The speed at which they close you down, 2 or 3 defenders at once! When you are defending, your AI controlled teammates aren't half as smart or fast. They're sluggish, running on slippery ice. And the guy you are controlling gets tired fast and can't pressure for too long.
 
some random stuff: Only thing that would get me exciting for 2013 is, pes coming out for the wii u where the gameplay is not interrupted and all strategies/substitutions are done on the upad. It having decent graphics and balanced gameplay features. I don't mind the defenders having an advantages over the attackers. Deeply I hope this will happen. And o yeah, snow! weather should become more part of the game. they should really revamp the whole weather system. if this is not going to happen i might stick with pes 12. It just isn't worth the money.
 
Rentboy said:
Indeed, I didn't mean to criticise the 6 Star level (Super Star), cause I haven't even played it yet (and won't do that to be honest).
The thing is, it's sad to see how they have allowed the same happen to Top Player (the standard highest level). This was meant to be "organically" harder, but the difference between Top Player and Professional is cheating, scripting and stat boosting.
What gets on my nerves is seeing how KONAMI was raving about their new AI. It's the worst AI I remember seeing in a PES/WE version.
On the back of its box it says "Can you Play?" almost aware that is some sort of ultimate challenge. They should have rephrased it to "Do you dare playing this on SuperStar?" NO! :LOL:




I have been having the same impression about smaller teams for a long time now. In PES 2011 in my ML sometimes I struggled (and lost a few times) against teams fighting relegation, while hammering the likes of Milan 4-0. I don't know what it is, if the AI compensated the lack of ability of those teams, or if they concentrated more on defence against my team.

What I do notice on PES 2012 is that the CPU does not suffer from fatigue during the match.
You can put some fresh legs in your attack, they will be playing against the same defenders who are there from the start but they will never be tired. It's uncanny.
The speed at which they close you down, 2 or 3 defenders at once! When you are defending, your AI controlled teammates aren't half as smart or fast. They're sluggish, running on slippery ice. And the guy you are controlling gets tired fast and can't pressure for too long.
Click to expand...

Lots of good points here.

As you mentioned about stat boosting, the game is sometimes a mess.

I'm in my 2nd season ML, and every team of the first six games has parked the bus, and won playing the dreaded uber counter attack.

There is no trade off though.

The counter is a valid gameplan, but the trade off should be that the CPU gets knackered as a pass the ball about and run rings round them....they don't even raise a sweat in their perfect formations. And then bham, Emile Heskey goes on one of his Maradona's and it's one nil. The counter is THE be all and end all in this game.

It's becoming repetitive and boring for me now. Teams trying to play intricate nice football will get hammered by the CPU dribbling speed merchants, the best option is to either fight fire with fire and rely solely on a blistering counter game or cross the ball in from the goal line, because trying to work your way through Wolverhampton's fortress defence is just silly and meaningless.

The CPU are just unrelenting in it's position excellence.

Now as I game I can beat Superstar, I know what to do to counter the CPU. But if you're trying to emulate football here, you'll have little chance.
 
ccshopland said:
Lots of good points here.

As you mentioned about stat boosting, the game is sometimes a mess.

I'm in my 2nd season ML, and every team of the first six games has parked the bus, and won playing the dreaded uber counter attack.

There is no trade off though.

The counter is a valid gameplan, but the trade off should be that the CPU gets knackered as a pass the ball about and run rings round them....they don't even raise a sweat in their perfect formations. And then bham, Emile Heskey goes on one of his Maradona's and it's one nil. The counter is THE be all and end all in this game.

It's becoming repetitive and boring for me now. Teams trying to play intricate nice football will get hammered by the CPU dribbling speed merchants, the best option is to either fight fire with fire and rely solely on a blistering counter game or cross the ball in from the goal line, because trying to work your way through Wolverhampton's fortress defence is just silly and meaningless.

The CPU are just unrelenting in it's position excellence.

Now as I game I can beat Superstar, I know what to do to counter the CPU. But if you're trying to emulate football here, you'll have little chance.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is something someone discussed here before, and I totally agree - what you saw in those 6 matches is the CPU way of playing and you will see Barcelona, Man City and Milan parking the bus like that, playing like a Stoke almost. Every team play like that. Feels like KONAMI Soccer (from the 80's on the MSX) where the only difference between teams was the colour of uniform. Well, back then at least the same rules applied to you and the CPU.

PES 2012 is ridiculously arcadey. The other day the AI scored a goal against me that was cinema stuff, I don't know what happens there, but they just entered "focus mode" and exchanged some 3 or 4 consecutive aerial passes without letting the ball touch the ground, and the final touch was an impeccable volley from just outside the box. It reminded me of another archaic gem, Actua Soccer. Remember that, from the 90's on the PC? :LOL:

My last ML match, where I really gave up, summarised for me all that is wrong with the game. The CPU looked like they would score at every attack, and at some point in the 2nd half they did it. They put 4 consecutive goals past me. No chances for my ML chumps, especially considering how I was using some option file that was rather generous with Championship teams (some reaching 82's and 83's on overall stats)... that didn't help at all.
It is annoying see a Heskey being Messi for a day indeed, this game brings things as far detached from reality as ever before.

One last observation: I, too, noticed that I score more easily on counter attacks. That's because, much like you said, when the CPU has all their men behind the ball, it is impossible to break them down passing the ball. The sheer speed with which they regroup and close you down is out of this world.
I end up invariably scoring ugly goals from these situations. Either from crosses, or by resorting to something I normally wouldn't, such as hitting it early with some defenders still in front of me... sometimes there's a lucky deflection, or something. But on 80% of the times the ball is blocked by the CPU defence.

Like someone said here before, it's a grind to play this game. Wake up KONAMI!
 
just want to add that when you deselect a player, even when he's completely knackered will receive a crazy boost and the friendly CPU teammate will run full pelt disregarding any stats.
 
Most of the time it's the passing that got screwed up in competion matches
You give a regular pass straight to a teammate, but for some odd reason the ball goes deep.
Lots and lots misunderstandings between your player, even 3 meter passes go wrong.
The only thing you can do than is press your start button, go to the select sides window, select the opposite team, pass back to the keeper and make a beautiful owngoal.
Don't forget the middlefinger and F**K YOU KONAMI
Is it fun? No, it isn't but at least it cools down my temper.
 
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Who let this game come out so messed up from the demos? I have to find out the reason, because i will never spend one more cent in a pes game, since the free demos are not only the final code but a better one?!!!! End of my involvment with pes this year, for good.
 
Me!TheRaven said:
Who let this game come out so messed up from the demos? I have to find out the reason, because i will never spend one more cent in a pes game, since the free demos are not only the final code but a better one?!!!! End of my involvment with pes this year, for good.
Click to expand...

PES demo's are always better than the final game. They are so much more polished than the final product it's just a shame we never get the full game as good as them.

Mark my words this year we will all be sucked in yet again by the previews & demo's.
 
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