PES 2015 Discussion Thread (PS4/XB1)

gabe.paul.logan said:
a new FIFAish way to make faces, for the first time for Götze? for the whole Bayern squad?
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Wow what a special day. Mario Gotze will be speak about Pes 2015. :FISH: Lovely. Konami it will be better to create more than 17 stadiums!:R1 :R1:R1 It's more important!

Where is Camp Nou?

Where is Santiego Bernabeu?

Where is Park the Princes?

W h e r e i s W E M B L E Y??????


WHAT A SHAME:R1
 
MikeM24 said:
Reposting my earlier questions because they seemed to be lost in the midst of some battling.

So what exactly do we have in the kit edit mode in PES15 Xbox One and PS4?

I'm reading things like the "pixel editor" have been removed, so I would assume that means no sponsors logos or in game kit designing outside of the basic "layer" system?

I might just have to stick with the 360 version if that's true, as I create totally fictional teams and players usually. It's going to be poor without extra touches like sponsors and stuff.
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Seems to be the case of only kit editor without image files and pixel editor but this is all hearsay mate. I watched a truebrits video and Chelsea had Adidas stripes and blue kit without logos and default club emblem. Feels so backwards but what can we do.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Yeah it's a tough call although I think where people say they don't want PES to become as responsive as FIFA it's a misplaced fear. FIFA's weak point can be seen by watching the AI slalom around rather than dribble. Touches of the ball/dribbling etc take the ball too far. Being able to zig zag around is more of the problem than having responsive controls, which I'd love see more of in PES. It still happens in shooting scenarios as well.

I can't articulate it that well without going into to case by case scenario's and video footage but I think in certain passing or shooting situations, the previous animation shouldn't have to fully complete before your button press activates the pass or shot. It's probably an animation or coding problem or they don't want to put the extra level of work into it and they will make a blanket statement like responsiveness is fine.

I am inclined to believe it's an animation problem as there's a few niggles in the game that aren't because Konami's football philsophy is bad but because the animation isn't up to scratch.

- goalkeepers that can't save a shot but make an attempt to - nothing wrong with that, unless of course they dive a second after the shot's passed them or they dive in slow motion
- certain shooting animations where the player's leg doesn't make a proper backswing.
- certain passing animations where the player seems to pull his whole upper body and head back as he passes.

Then there's nets and pitch lighting (don't forget how bad night games looked in the last couple of years).

I want PES to fix these issues because their fundamental gameplay philosophy is the one I prefer, but even disregarding presentation bells and whistles, the visual side of their game has been sub standard for the last few years. It breaks immersion as well as highlighting issues which probably arent issues (e.g. when a goalkeeper is beaten or a defender gets fooled by a nice through ball - at the moment it looks obvious when the game has decided the outcome. I have no issue with the outcome in those situations as they happen in real life....but if they're represented in a poor visual frame of reference, then they look like it's a mistake by the programmers, rather than a mistake by the player on the game).

Just my 2 cents.
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This is a great post. A good way of looking at it and I agree.

The keepers in particular are ruining goal scoring for me.
 
LonsFenomenoo said:
Wow what a special day. Mario Gotze will be speak about Pes 2015. :FISH: Lovely. Konami it will be better to create more than 17 stadiums!:R1 :R1:R1 It's more important!

Where is Camp Nou?

Where is Santiego Bernabeu?

Where is Park the Princes?

W h e r e i s W E M B L E Y??????


WHAT A SHAME:R1
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it says CONTENT. my 2nd thought is probably he will reveal some licences in an add
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Yeah it's a tough call although I think where people say they don't want PES to become as responsive as FIFA it's a misplaced fear. FIFA's weak point can be seen by watching the AI slalom around rather than dribble. Touches of the ball/dribbling etc take the ball too far. Being able to zig zag around is more of the problem than having responsive controls, which I'd love see more of in PES. It still happens in shooting scenarios as well.

I can't articulate it that well without going into to case by case scenario's and video footage but I think in certain passing or shooting situations, the previous animation shouldn't have to fully complete before your button press activates the pass or shot. It's probably an animation or coding problem or they don't want to put the extra level of work into it and they will make a blanket statement like responsiveness is fine.

I am inclined to believe it's an animation problem as there's a few niggles in the game that aren't because Konami's football philsophy is bad but because the animation isn't up to scratch.

- goalkeepers that can't save a shot but make an attempt to - nothing wrong with that, unless of course they dive a second after the shot's passed them or they dive in slow motion
- certain shooting animations where the player's leg doesn't make a proper backswing.
- certain passing animations where the player seems to pull his whole upper body and head back as he passes.

Then there's nets and pitch lighting (don't forget how bad night games looked in the last couple of years).

I want PES to fix these issues because their fundamental gameplay philosophy is the one I prefer, but even disregarding presentation bells and whistles, the visual side of their game has been sub standard for the last few years. It breaks immersion as well as highlighting issues which probably arent issues (e.g. when a goalkeeper is beaten or a defender gets fooled by a nice through ball - at the moment it looks obvious when the game has decided the outcome. I have no issue with the outcome in those situations as they happen in real life....but if they're represented in a poor visual frame of reference, then they look like it's a mistake by the programmers, rather than a mistake by the player on the game).

Just my 2 cents.
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Good post my friend.

Anyway I haven't played the game so i haven't been in this thread to say much or anything at all since i haven't played either FIFA 15 or PES 2015, instead I've been watching a shitload of videos of both games.

There's good things about both but until I play i can't give a certified judgement but one important thing i have seen which links to your point and something I want to when I play these games for a month or so is to have a big discussion on the future of gameplay for both game because both as clearly seen by the videos or playtests are at a pivotal stage in their development, both are at landmark crossroads.

The issue you speak about here 'lag input' is related to how animations work, yes your correct, the issue is related to what i believe the Ign people said way, way back in June "PES moves a lot like FIFA now, everything is in 'one piece'".

The most unique and for me the highest quality in terms of just pure gameplay philosophy where PES 2011-13 despite their flaws because these games are different to PES 2014-15 the older pes games and different to every FIFA. These where games in which stats made each player run on different animation speeds with different levels of control entirely, unlike any other football game where everyone moves and turns are all baked into one piece.

The best way to explain it is, PES 2011-2013 had a lot of very quick, sometimes alien like animations, along with basic animations, these broke the rules of every player moving in 'one piece' linear style in which we see in every other PES game and in every fifa, essentially every player handles the same but some slower, some faster due to speed and acceleration stats. Each players movement was generated purely on stats and form, due to PES 2011-13 having full 360 movement, players all moved and turned at different angles with various levels of control depending on their explosive power, dribble speed, top speed, ball control, weak foot accuracy and frequency and dribbling stats at wide amount of variables using completely different animation sets. Then you compile this with the tactical depth in formation settings and player attack and defence frequency.

Konami learned last year trying to recreate PES 2013 on a new engine is going to take a very, very long time, they have done the right thing in creating a base from PES6, a much easier game to recreate.

PES 2013 was built using dated technology, thing is the amount of depth that went into that game, the only way in which to create a game with that level of depth was to use an older engine which didn't present all these new realtime ball physics, jostling barycenter animations and so on. 8 Years later and they are struggling still to implement stat variables across their attributes board which drive the game. Its hard!

People have questioned the ball physics in PES a lot, i think it's more important for the game to be balanced within whatever ball physics are present than to have great ball physics but players not able to respond to them properly. It's much easier to program a game where everyone moves along the same predictable principles at different speeds than a game when players move around on totally different wavelengths.

What fascinates me is with all this praise PES 2015 is getting is that the gameplay in it's philosophy has quite clearly gone backwards and become less advanced and more arcadey but it's supplemented with some of the best new, organic animations that have ever been seen. It's great work, and i agree with what Konami have done this year, whats incredible is that it shows the development to get to PES 2013 was before its it time! Its officially a game before its time. It must of been fate, Konami where left behind by EA in terms of technology but what they discovered was far greater than ever could be imagined on the new technology itself.

The scary thing for EA is Konami are in the driving seat, PES 2013 is a PS3 game, not a PS4 worthy game, it's only PS4 in terms of a few graphical effects, Konami could release the same gameplay on the PS3 as on PS4, the Specs for PES 2015 on the PC are the same as last year. Its quite clear politics with Sony etc.. have lead for the PS4 version to be better.

I'll be playing PES 2015 by November 13th whether its because me and our family have purchased a PS4 so i can play against my brother or just playing it on PC i'm looking forward to it, and FIFA when i get a chance to play it. I still refuse to give EA any of my money so unless it's a second hand copy i not purchasing FIFA for at least half price, probably less. I feel this is important to be discussed because the old linear one piece control style movement can only go so far.
 
Hey guys, I'm planning on buying Winnin Eleven 2015 instead of Pes 2015 mostly because of the JLeague and Japan national squad exclusives and was wondering my self about the online, do you think i'll be able to play against european players or i will be forced to play just versus the asian players? How was it for Pes 14 and We 14?
Thanks
 
klashman69 said:
Good post my friend.

Anyway I haven't played the game so i haven't been in this thread to say much or anything at all since i haven't played either FIFA 15 or PES 2015, instead I've been watching a shitload of videos of both games.

There's good things about both but until I play i can't give a certified judgement but one important thing i have seen which links to your point and something I want to when I play these games for a month or so is to have a big discussion on the future of gameplay for both game because both as clearly seen by the videos or playtests are at a pivotal stage in their development, both are at landmark crossroads.

The issue you speak about here 'lag input' is related to how animations work, yes your correct, the issue is related to what i believe the Ign people said way, way back in June "PES moves a lot like FIFA now, everything is in 'one piece'".

The most unique and for me the highest quality in terms of just pure gameplay philosophy where PES 2011-13 despite their flaws because these games are different to PES 2014-15 the older pes games and different to every FIFA. These where games in which stats made each player run on different animation speeds with different levels of control entirely, unlike any other football game where everyone moves and turns are all baked into one piece.

The best way to explain it is, PES 2011-2013 had a lot of very quick, sometimes alien like animations, along with basic animations, these broke the rules of every player moving in 'one piece' linear style in which we see in every other PES game and in every fifa, essentially every player handles the same but some slower, some faster due to speed and acceleration stats. Each players movement was generated purely on stats and form, due to PES 2011-13 having full 360 movement, players all moved and turned at different angles with various levels of control depending on their explosive power, dribble speed, top speed, ball control, weak foot accuracy and frequency and dribbling stats at wide amount of variables using completely different animation sets. Then you compile this with the tactical depth in formation settings and player attack and defence frequency.

Konami learned last year trying to recreate PES 2013 on a new engine is going to take a very, very long time, they have done the right thing in creating a base from PES6, a much easier game to recreate.

PES 2013 was built using dated technology, thing is the amount of depth that went into that game, the only way in which to create a game with that level of depth was to use an older engine which didn't present all these new realtime ball physics, jostling barycenter animations and so on. 8 Years later and they are struggling still to implement stat variables across their attributes board which drive the game. Its hard!

People have questioned the ball physics in PES a lot, i think it's more important for the game to be balanced within whatever ball physics are present than to have great ball physics but players not able to respond to them properly. It's much easier to program a game where everyone moves along the same predictable principles at different speeds than a game when players move around on totally different wavelengths.

What fascinates me is with all this praise PES 2015 is getting is that the gameplay in it's philosophy has quite clearly gone backwards and become less advanced and more arcadey but it's supplemented with some of the best new, organic animations that have ever been seen. It's great work, and i agree with what Konami have done this year, whats incredible is that it shows the development to get to PES 2013 was before its it time! Its officially a game before its time. It must of been fate, Konami where left behind by EA in terms of technology but what they discovered was far greater than ever could be imagined on the new technology itself.

The scary thing for EA is Konami are in the driving seat, PES 2013 is a PS3 game, not a PS4 worthy game, it's only PS4 in terms of a few graphical effects, Konami could release the same gameplay on the PS3 as on PS4, the Specs for PES 2015 on the PC are the same as last year. Its quite clear politics with Sony etc.. have lead for the PS4 version to be better.

I'll be playing PES 2015 by November 13th whether its because me and our family have purchased a PS4 so i can play against my brother or just playing it on PC i'm looking forward to it, and FIFA when i get a chance to play it. I still refuse to give EA any of my money so unless it's a second hand copy i not purchasing FIFA for at least half price, probably less. I feel this is important to be discussed because the old linear one piece control style movement can only go so far.
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i respect your opinion but how on earth do you think konami are in the driving seat? in my opinion it certainly isn't gameplay - fifa's has its faults yes but the ball physics and collision detection are light years ahead -konami are still using the stumble animation from years ago and fouls are virtually none existent and the passing scripted. Then there is the whole package, the sound, the atmosphere, the presentation, the game modes that immerse you - again FIFA in the driving seat. This all leads to the most important factor for development and investment, the sales. And i'd bet my house FIFA will be streets ahead on that too
 
Alexbeckhs said:
Hey guys, I'm planning on buying Winnin Eleven 2015 instead of Pes 2015 mostly because of the JLeague and Japan national squad exclusives and was wondering my self about the online, do you think i'll be able to play against european players or i will be forced to play just versus the asian players? How was it for Pes 14 and We 14?
Thanks
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If you play WE 2015 online I imagine you'll be able to play anyone anywhere in the world who is also playing WE 2015 online.
 
sando said:
so no one cares about 2 vs 2 online old scool friendly match lobbies with password???? :-(
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No mate, i care , i play every night PES 6 2 vs 2 online .. but from this video.. is hard to say .


2213_zps30c40a05.jpg

Here has not space for other players... but u can play 2 vs 2 with 2 on same PC that is sure .

222121_zpsnzy00zfo.gif


On this screen... maybe have place for 2 or 3 players but not for more.. or its possible but need to have scrow up/donw slider :THINK:

Anyway i'm 90% sure that we will can play 2vs2 online .
 
hitmanuk said:
i respect your opinion but how on earth do you think konami are in the driving seat? in my opinion it certainly isn't gameplay - fifa's has its faults yes but the ball physics and collision detection are light years ahead
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Thing is what does Ball physics and collision detection add to your thought process within the gameplay. Like i was explaining regarding movement in PES 2011-13, if i know like in every fifa, every single player will handle the same way, some faster, some slower, tactics wont affect the game much so you know in certain positions you will be favored to score more than others, what does slightly better ball physics, deflections along with nice jostling physics force me to change my mind in how I play if i know each player moves and turns in the same way?

If I'm playing FIFA, I have a very fast winger not matter his ball control i know i can thread balls into him and he will reach into positions where i know he's going to score, I really don't see how nice ball physics and collision detentions really going to change much. There maybe a nice example of some ball physics but that will not change the predictability since every player will have the same linear ball control style, so i know if i keep possession and thread the ball into certain positions i'm going to score regardless of the AI or human.

I think it's far more important for the most basic things such as stats preventing and enabling certain play-styles, creating variables which make me change my thought process. If i have Theo Walcott or Gabriel Agbonglahor, i don't want to like in FIFA be able to dribble past 4-5 players which i can do because he's fast, they beat players with pace not their dropping of the shoulder and quick change of direction! I want to use his pace by just sprinting full pelt with him into space, off the shoulder of the last defender or on the break! This is where PES are miles ahead, the basic things which make you think and have to change and adapt your style.

FIFA is still stuck in the imagination mode where you play at 60% and play in a certain style you feel is realistic but if you go full pelt your win easily. Like i said with the technology, Konami are still in PS3 level mode with PES 2015 whereas EA have moved to the PS4 level, EA's philosophy is still like in the PS1/PS2 days just with far better physics and quality animations (well up until about FIFA 14, the animations don't seem very good in 15) but the thought process isn't much different at all, such an easy game to play.

PES 2014 had great jostling physics and very good ball physics, best in any football game but was a horrible game to play, horrible and broken.

Please don't talk about manual, I was and always have played manual in FIFA and PES, i was very good at manual back in FIFA 09, apart from getting mashed by this Finnish dude Puzulu i did well in my manual league, manual shouldn't be hard either if EA could program the thing properly so you didn't have to use through ball for short passes because of sensitivity problems.

-konami are still using the stumble animation from years ago and fouls are virtually none existent and the passing scripted.
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Valid points, i don't know about the fouls, this should be dependent on how well you dribble and how good the CPU dribblers are, it should also depend on tactics, some games have very few fouls are are open or just full of incompetent play, some games are full of aggressive tackles, it varies depending on players and tactics! You must also factor in some fouls given in real life cant be shown ingame because they are unfair such as pulling shirts on free kicks and corners, climbing etc...

Also the demo is played with short time limits so we must wait and see if like in 2011-13 the gameplay gets more simulation the longer you set it on.

Then there is the whole package, the sound, the atmosphere, the presentation, the game modes that immerse you - again FIFA in the driving seat. This all leads to the most important factor for development and investment, the sales. And i'd bet my house FIFA will be streets ahead on that too
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What immerses me is the mental challenge, not the aesthetic one, it's like you can be rich and get a narcissistic, psychopathic pretty girlfriend, she will get draw in by your aesthetics, things is after 2-3 months she gets used to the diamonds and if the love isn't present which it wasn't at the beginning it all comes crashing down like a car crash in slow motion.
 
zeemeister said:
Seems to be the case of only kit editor without image files and pixel editor but this is all hearsay mate. I watched a truebrits video and Chelsea had Adidas stripes and blue kit without logos and default club emblem. Feels so backwards but what can we do.
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I hope that's fixed for retail. Glad also I'm keeping my 360 even when I've got my One. Cheers for answering.
 
duh i knew it! the same thing happend to Götze today i guess. i like the making faces from scratch method more though. well at least modells will getting much better. :)

i just wonder how will it be...it will be like at EA where players will have 4-5 yrs old faces because the company cant approach them every year or Konami face makers will update generic faces by themself if they had to
 
Photorealistic face but abbreviated animation when he shoots...nets that haven't been improved but they're worried about every pore of skin showing on a player's face. Come on Konami - these things aren't high priorities unless you have had a few years with the new engine and everything else in the game is working well. Spend some time and money on the right areas.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Photorealistic face but abbreviated animation when he shoots...nets that haven't been improved but they're worried about every pore of skin showing on a player's face. Come on Konami - these things aren't high priorities unless you have had a few years with the new engine and everything else in the game is working well. Spend some time and money on the areas that please me.
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I fixed for you! :SMUG:
 
Honome said:
I fixed for you! :SMUG:
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Cheeky.

But it's not just me. Maybe not everyone but I'm sure there's a few others who, given the option of one or the other, would pick better nets and pitch lighting than a player's face looking 2% better than it already does.

(Faces) Large workload - small to medium satisfaction improvement
(Nets) Small workload - big satisfaction improvement

It's just common sense you'd think.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Cheeky.

But it's not just me. Maybe not everyone but I'm sure there's a few others who, given the option of one or the other, would pick better nets and pitch lighting than a player's face looking 2% better than it already does.

(Faces) Large workload - small to medium satisfaction improvement
(Nets) Small workload - big satisfaction improvement

It's just common sense you'd think.
Click to expand...

What sells more, nets or faces? (and i mean on real world, not evoweb wonderland)
 
Honome said:
What sells more, nets or faces? (and i mean on real world, not evoweb wonderland)
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Gameplay.

Nets affect gameplay via goalscoring satisfaction. As do realistic looking goalkeeper animations (saving shots or getting beaten by a shot).

Faces are an obsession with Konami and I feel they've neglected other visual aspects which are more visible during gameplay than faces. And like I've said before, the faces are already good. Spending time to improve them slightly is for very little gain.

FIFA's faces and player models (by enlarge) are nowhere near as good as PES, but which one sells more in real world?
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Gameplay.

Nets affect gameplay via goalscoring satisfaction. As do realistic looking goalkeeper animations (saving shots or getting beaten by a shot).

Faces are an obsession with Konami and I feel they've neglected other visual aspects which are more visible during gameplay than faces. And like I've said before, the faces are already good. Spending time to improve them slightly is for very little gain.

FIFA's faces and player models (by enlarge) are nowhere near as good as PES, but which one sells more in real world?
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Konami is obsessed with faces and evoweb is obsessed with nets. I bet that Konami would have a great marketing in Japan if, in stead of Honda face capture video, they made a video of motion capturing the San Siro nets. At least they would sell 5 more copies of the game for evowebers.
 
I don't know why it took so long but I am really enjoying the demo now. It definitely has that one more game thing going on this year. The responsiveness, new animations, reduced constant AI pressure and the way the ball curves and dips this year help make the experience much more enjoyable than some of the recent PES games. Keepers still look out of place sometimes but they're pretty good. Passes with the outside of the boot using players like Rodriguez, Iniesta and Pirlo are marvelous.
 
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sabh said:
I am still learning how to use the damn Share option on my PS4 but I probably had the best PES experience ever when I scored an absolute screamer with James Rodriguez and I've never seen a GK make a stupid yet so realistic mistake. He caught the ball which was traveling about the speed of Bugati Veyron. Buffon caught it only to have it slipped out of his hands....then the ball hits left side post he tries to catch it again only to push the ball inside the goal line. I can't describe this but I've never seen or had this happen.

I don't score any goals from a corner but tonight I did with Robben. Now he didnt score with his bald shiny head rather extended his Ronnie Coleman deltoid and smacked the ball in with his whoulder.

Shit like this makes me wanna load up some Sour Diesel right now.
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That's nothing last night played a throughball and Neuer rushed out but when he tried to lunge on the ball it passed through his chest and out his bum :SHOCK:

He then took out my striker and a penalty was awarded fgs. First time shit like that happened in many, many games and hopefully the last.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Gameplay.

Nets affect gameplay via goalscoring satisfaction. As do realistic looking goalkeeper animations (saving shots or getting beaten by a shot).

Faces are an obsession with Konami and I feel they've neglected other visual aspects which are more visible during gameplay than faces. And like I've said before, the faces are already good. Spending time to improve them slightly is for very little gain.

FIFA's faces and player models (by enlarge) are nowhere near as good as PES, but which one sells more in real world?
Click to expand...

Agree that obviously the gameplay has to be good for a game to sell but there are so many other contributing factors for it any game to sell such as immersion, attention to detail (for sport games im talking kits, stadiums, league setups, commentary etc)then there are past experiences, marketing and advertising stratergy's and dare i say brand loyalty.

I honestly believe you could have the best football gameplay in the world but if there are only 2 made up teams in the game, one made up ground then nobody will buy it - well maybe a few on here but im talking general population - for the general population they want the whole package - the sky commentary, the real teams who they support and the grounds they play on and this year FIFA delivers and provides a solid game play model too - imo
 
vincef said:
Yeah shooting needs to be fixedz, but Konami seems to think it's fine the way it is
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oh boy, i always wonder what the heck you are trying to achieve by such utterly stupid statements. (this needs to be "fixed", that needs to be "fixed"...)

do you think there's a magical "FIX IT" button on the developer's computers and they just need to push it? if you at least would TRY to describe what your particular problem is... but what the hell should somebody do with such a bullcrap statement. (are you talking about manual shooting? advanced shooting? basic shooting? shots too hard, too soft? R2 shots, knuckle shots? what are you talking about?)

vincef, you need to be fixed!!!!!!!
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Gameplay.

Nets affect gameplay via goalscoring satisfaction. As do realistic looking goalkeeper animations (saving shots or getting beaten by a shot).

Faces are an obsession with Konami and I feel they've neglected other visual aspects which are more visible during gameplay than faces. And like I've said before, the faces are already good. Spending time to improve them slightly is for very little gain.

FIFA's faces and player models (by enlarge) are nowhere near as good as PES, but which one sells more in real world?
Click to expand...

+1
 
zeus0r said:
oh boy, i always wonder what the heck you are trying to achieve by such utterly stupid statements. (this needs to be "fixed", that needs to be "fixed"...)

do you think there's a magical "FIX IT" button on the developer's computers and they just need to push it? if you at least would TRY to describe what your particular problem is... but what the hell should somebody do with such a bullcrap statement. (are you talking about manual shooting? advanced shooting? basic shooting? shots too hard, too soft? R2 shots, knuckle shots? what are you talking about?)

vincef, you need to be fixed!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

And you need to address his post respectfully. Why so defensive?

How about this version:

do you think there's a magical "FIX IT" button on the developer's computers and they just need to push it? if you at least would try to describe what your particular problem is... are you talking about manual shooting? advanced shooting? basic shooting? shots too hard, too soft? R2 shots, knuckle shots?
Click to expand...

I just copy pasted your words excluding all the unneeded aggressiveness. Looks better at least no?
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Gameplay.

Nets affect gameplay via goalscoring satisfaction. As do realistic looking goalkeeper animations (saving shots or getting beaten by a shot).

Faces are an obsession with Konami and I feel they've neglected other visual aspects which are more visible during gameplay than faces. And like I've said before, the faces are already good. Spending time to improve them slightly is for very little gain.

FIFA's faces and player models (by enlarge) are nowhere near as good as PES, but which one sells more in real world?
Click to expand...

But Fifa's nets are nowhere near as good too though. Imho Fifa sells majorly for it's licenses, especially the English leagues. Take that away, give it to PES and watch the sales dwindle. The BPL alone is a massive selling point worldwide.
 
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