viktoristus
WE9LE
- 1 January 2009
Have you ever wondered why the CPU has changed the formation for the upcoming game? Why does a reserve defensive midfielder play instead of a star striker (or even a substitute striker)?
I found out that in the League mode[1][2] there is between 1 in 2 to about 1 in 5 chance that the CPU will change the formation to a more defensive one.
[1] Providing there are 3 or more teams in the league, never mind whether there are 3 identical teams, e.g. a League of 3x Arsenal FC against each other. With just 2 teams, it doesn't seem to happen.
[2] It doesn't happen in the Cup mode. I haven't tested ML.
Games & databases used:
WE9LE: WEplayWE 150111
WE9: default KONAMI database
Various difficulties and match lengths were tested.
After some tests I have been able to come to these conclusions:
In order for CPU to change the formation, these conditions have to be met:
Condition 1. There are at least 2 players playing on 1 original positions.
That is:
2+ DMF
2+ CMF
2+ AMF
2+ (WF+SS+CF) - all forward positions are considered as one -> let's call it FW
This does not apply to these positions:
GK, CWP, CB, SB, WB, SMF
Condition 2. As a basic rule, the most defensive position (DMF) should have at least the same amount of players as all more offensive positions.
That is:
COUNT(DMF) >= MAX(COUNT(CMF);COUNT(AMF);COUNT(FW))
and then:
COUNT(CMF) >= MAX(COUNT(AMF);COUNT(FW))
and so on.
If Condition 1 is TRUE AND Condition 2 is FALSE, CPU may change the formation.
Also, when the amount of players on the more defensive position is already 2 or higher, the changes won't apply. E.g. if there are already 2 players on DMF, no one else will be changed to DMF even if there are 3 players on CMF.
Here is an example:
Formation: GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, CMF, CMF - RWF, LWF, CF.
CPU will remove 1 FW and put 1 DMF instead, often changing the player because of various criteria like registered position, playable position, abilities, condition arrows.
Why? Because: COUNT(DMF) < COUNT(FW).
Fix no.1: GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, CMF, CMF, RMF, LMF - CF.
CPU will still change the formation, removing 1 CMF and adding 1 DMF instead.
Why? Because: COUNT(DMF) < COUNT(CMF)
Fix no.2: GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, CMF, RMF, LMF - CF.
CPU will not change the formation since all necessary conditions are met.
Here are some formations which I tested in the League mode and the CPU changed them before the match:
Original - Changed:
433 A4T - 442 B4L
433 A4R - 442 B4L (but LWF instead of SS)
433 A4 - 442 B4
433 A3 - 442 B3
433 A3L - 442 B3R (RWF)
433 A3T - 442 B3L
433 C5L - 442 A5
433 A2L - 442 B4L
442 C3R - 442 A2R
442 C5Lx (RMF in place of RWF) - 442 A4Lx (DMF in place of one CMF)
442 A1 - 451 B1
442 B1 (already 2x DMF there) - 451 B2 (CMF in place of one CF)
433 A1T - 442 B1R
442 B4R - 451 B4
451 A4 - 451 B3
451 A1 - 451 B1
352 A3R - 352 B2R
343 B1 - 352 B2
433 C3L - 442 A4R (RWF instead of SS)
Here are some "safe" formations:
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, CMF, RMF, LMF - CF
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, CMF, CMF, AMF - CF
How to solve this problem?
A. You can make changes for players who have these (not only registered, but also the other) positions:
old position -> new positions
WB* -> SB*, WB
CMF* -> DMF*, CMF
AMF* -> CMF*
WF* -> SMF*, WF
SS* -> SS*, AMF
CF* -> CF*, AMF
There always has to be one FW in the formation, so in case a team plays two CF players, one of them will be on the AMF position.
If the old position was registered, you also set the new position as registered.
Then you will also change the formation to one of the safe formations like those mentioned above, or just old formations with changed positions (i.e. you don't have to keep the order as in the in-game preset formations - CMF can be positioned after RMF and LMF, etc.).
Some examples:
Old formation - 442 A4:
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, CMF, CMF, AMF - CF, CF
New formation:
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, CMF, CMF, AMF - CF
Old formation - 433 A4L:
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, CMF, CMF - RWF, SS, CF
New formation:
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, CMF, RMF, AMF - CF
Old formation - 343 A2:
GK - CB, CB, CB - DMF, RWB, LWB, CMF - RWF, LWF, CF
New formation:
GK - CB, CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, RMF, LMF - CF
There will be more players on SB, DMF, CMF and AMF than before, so some of them might not play as often as previously (e.g. Rakitic, Xavi and Iniesta might play over S. Busquets because they all are DMF now), but at least the number of forward players will be kept consistent (no more making a 2 DMF 442 formation out of 1 DMF much more offensive 433 formation).
Please note that with the exception of CB, do not put 3 or more players on the same position - not even on DMF. If you do, the CPU might change one of the DMF to another position.
B. You can decide not to change anything and accept the situation that CPU frequently changes formation in the League mode and that very often leaves out some forward players which would otherwise play in the default formation.
For example, in FC Barcelona, even if Neymar is on low condition, normally Pedro would be played on his position, but CPU instead adds another DMF.
As I have tested this in two different games and databases, I am pretty confident it is a common problem and will also happen in your game.
Perhaps you could test it in your database and post your results.
I set up the game like this:
And then often choose 3 same teams (1 for me and 2 for the CPU) in order to always play against the desired formation which is being tested.
Then I just go to the next match starting lineup menu and see if CPU changed the formation or not.
Then I start and exit the match and repeat all the steps.
Often one team has to be tested more than once, because as I have said above, CPU does not change the formation every time.
I found out that in the League mode[1][2] there is between 1 in 2 to about 1 in 5 chance that the CPU will change the formation to a more defensive one.
[1] Providing there are 3 or more teams in the league, never mind whether there are 3 identical teams, e.g. a League of 3x Arsenal FC against each other. With just 2 teams, it doesn't seem to happen.
[2] It doesn't happen in the Cup mode. I haven't tested ML.
Games & databases used:
WE9LE: WEplayWE 150111
WE9: default KONAMI database
Various difficulties and match lengths were tested.
After some tests I have been able to come to these conclusions:
In order for CPU to change the formation, these conditions have to be met:
Condition 1. There are at least 2 players playing on 1 original positions.
That is:
2+ DMF
2+ CMF
2+ AMF
2+ (WF+SS+CF) - all forward positions are considered as one -> let's call it FW
This does not apply to these positions:
GK, CWP, CB, SB, WB, SMF
Condition 2. As a basic rule, the most defensive position (DMF) should have at least the same amount of players as all more offensive positions.
That is:
COUNT(DMF) >= MAX(COUNT(CMF);COUNT(AMF);COUNT(FW))
and then:
COUNT(CMF) >= MAX(COUNT(AMF);COUNT(FW))
and so on.
If Condition 1 is TRUE AND Condition 2 is FALSE, CPU may change the formation.
Also, when the amount of players on the more defensive position is already 2 or higher, the changes won't apply. E.g. if there are already 2 players on DMF, no one else will be changed to DMF even if there are 3 players on CMF.
Here is an example:
Formation: GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, CMF, CMF - RWF, LWF, CF.
CPU will remove 1 FW and put 1 DMF instead, often changing the player because of various criteria like registered position, playable position, abilities, condition arrows.
Why? Because: COUNT(DMF) < COUNT(FW).
Fix no.1: GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, CMF, CMF, RMF, LMF - CF.
CPU will still change the formation, removing 1 CMF and adding 1 DMF instead.
Why? Because: COUNT(DMF) < COUNT(CMF)
Fix no.2: GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, CMF, RMF, LMF - CF.
CPU will not change the formation since all necessary conditions are met.
Here are some formations which I tested in the League mode and the CPU changed them before the match:
Original - Changed:
433 A4T - 442 B4L
433 A4R - 442 B4L (but LWF instead of SS)
433 A4 - 442 B4
433 A3 - 442 B3
433 A3L - 442 B3R (RWF)
433 A3T - 442 B3L
433 C5L - 442 A5
433 A2L - 442 B4L
442 C3R - 442 A2R
442 C5Lx (RMF in place of RWF) - 442 A4Lx (DMF in place of one CMF)
442 A1 - 451 B1
442 B1 (already 2x DMF there) - 451 B2 (CMF in place of one CF)
433 A1T - 442 B1R
442 B4R - 451 B4
451 A4 - 451 B3
451 A1 - 451 B1
352 A3R - 352 B2R
343 B1 - 352 B2
433 C3L - 442 A4R (RWF instead of SS)
Here are some "safe" formations:
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, CMF, RMF, LMF - CF
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, CMF, CMF, AMF - CF
How to solve this problem?
A. You can make changes for players who have these (not only registered, but also the other) positions:
old position -> new positions
WB* -> SB*, WB
CMF* -> DMF*, CMF
AMF* -> CMF*
WF* -> SMF*, WF
SS* -> SS*, AMF
CF* -> CF*, AMF
There always has to be one FW in the formation, so in case a team plays two CF players, one of them will be on the AMF position.
If the old position was registered, you also set the new position as registered.
Then you will also change the formation to one of the safe formations like those mentioned above, or just old formations with changed positions (i.e. you don't have to keep the order as in the in-game preset formations - CMF can be positioned after RMF and LMF, etc.).
Some examples:
Old formation - 442 A4:
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, CMF, CMF, AMF - CF, CF
New formation:
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, CMF, CMF, AMF - CF
Old formation - 433 A4L:
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, CMF, CMF - RWF, SS, CF
New formation:
GK - CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, CMF, RMF, AMF - CF
Old formation - 343 A2:
GK - CB, CB, CB - DMF, RWB, LWB, CMF - RWF, LWF, CF
New formation:
GK - CB, CB, CB, RB, LB - DMF, DMF, RMF, LMF - CF
There will be more players on SB, DMF, CMF and AMF than before, so some of them might not play as often as previously (e.g. Rakitic, Xavi and Iniesta might play over S. Busquets because they all are DMF now), but at least the number of forward players will be kept consistent (no more making a 2 DMF 442 formation out of 1 DMF much more offensive 433 formation).
Please note that with the exception of CB, do not put 3 or more players on the same position - not even on DMF. If you do, the CPU might change one of the DMF to another position.
B. You can decide not to change anything and accept the situation that CPU frequently changes formation in the League mode and that very often leaves out some forward players which would otherwise play in the default formation.
For example, in FC Barcelona, even if Neymar is on low condition, normally Pedro would be played on his position, but CPU instead adds another DMF.
As I have tested this in two different games and databases, I am pretty confident it is a common problem and will also happen in your game.
Perhaps you could test it in your database and post your results.
I set up the game like this:
And then often choose 3 same teams (1 for me and 2 for the CPU) in order to always play against the desired formation which is being tested.
Then I just go to the next match starting lineup menu and see if CPU changed the formation or not.
Then I start and exit the match and repeat all the steps.
Often one team has to be tested more than once, because as I have said above, CPU does not change the formation every time.
Last edited:
