PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

What Konami should allow for PES 2013 is total control of the player on which the cursor is.

In PES 2012 when the game decides that the play is over be it because the ball is too far, is over the line or it has been called offside or other circumstances, the control over the player is lost and he doesn't react to input anymore.

I wish that the control is total that regardless of what the game is thinking is that if I want to do something with my player, be it running or shooting or tackling or whatever, that he should do it according to my input, no matter if it's impossible to get to the ball in time or if the referree already whistled for offside or other situations. If I then did something wrong, the referree can book me with a yellow card or worse, but the control and responsiveness to input should always be there.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
I wish that the control is total that regardless of what the game is thinking is that if I want to do something with my player, be it running or shooting or tackling or whatever, that he should do it according to my input, no matter if it's impossible to get to the ball in time or if the referree already whistled for offside or other situations. If I then did something wrong, the referree can book me with a yellow card or worse, but the control and responsiveness to input should always be there.
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:CONFUSE: Seriously?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

StuartCulli said:
:CONFUSE: Seriously?
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Yes, as it is right now it takes me out of the immersion when I press buttons and the player doesn't react because the game decided that the ball is slightly over the line or other things, it's unrealistic and that's why I wish for realistic control over the player.

I don't like being reminded that I'm playing a videogame, I want it to feel like football.

The other thing I wish is for the introduction of continuous play for PES 2013. It was promised for PES 2012 but in the end we got only very little of it, but for PES 2013 I wish it to be implemented fully, I don't like the magical resetting of positions.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

The drible of pes 2012 is awesome, i really love....but hate they way footplating works on the game... i hope they fix it on 2013. the drible i hope it stays.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Regarding dribbling, I hope this part of the press release is as good as it sounds:

"Dribbling: The speed with which a player moves with the ball has been slowed in line with real matches, but using R2 allows players to add various styles to their close control. Players can vary the speed of their dribbling, and cushion the ball as they move freely within a 360-degree circle. The new system allows players to knock a ball past a player and collect it, nutmeg them, or hold up play by shielding the ball as team mates find space and make runs."
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I love the dribbling after patch 1.06, it's intuitive and works just ace.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

_anderson said:
Regarding dribbling, I hope this part of the press release is as good as it sounds:

"Dribbling: The speed with which a player moves with the ball has been slowed in line with real matches, but using R2 allows players to add various styles to their close control. Players can vary the speed of their dribbling, and cushion the ball as they move freely within a 360-degree circle. The new system allows players to knock a ball past a player and collect it, nutmeg them, or hold up play by shielding the ball as team mates find space and make runs."
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this, if true, is the most interesting part
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Another thing that needs improvement is playerswitching:

It happens often that I have the cursor (half-supported) on one player and run with him towards a loose ball and then the game suddenly decides to switch the cursor to another player that supposedly is nearer to the ball.

I hate that, when I have the cursor on a specific player and run with him then the game should not decide to switch to another player.

That's another aspect of having total control that needs addressing.

Of course I could have fixed cursor but then I would have to always switch myself which is a bit exhausting.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
Another thing that needs improvement is playerswitching:

It happens often that I have the cursor (half-supported) on one player and run with him towards a loose ball and then the game suddenly decides to switch the cursor to another player that supposedly is nearer to the ball.

I hate that, when I have the cursor on a specific player and run with him then the game should not decide to switch to another player.

That's another aspect of having total control that needs addressing.

Of course I could have fixed cursor but then I would have to always switch myself which is a bit exhausting.
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Don't know why Konami have struggled with player switching ever since pes6.

In PES6 they had it perfect where it would only switch on manual if the ball was received by another teammate. Now on manual you remain the player until you switch manually unless your playing online then you have to have semi assist which at times is frustrating.

PES2012 is a huge improvement of 08/09/10 and the shocking 11 though i have to say.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

LTFC said:
Totally agree, somewhere along the line I got this idea too that 'slow' meant more realistic. The slower you make the game, and the longer you get used to it, the more dispropotionate your idea of how fast a 'realistic' game should be.

I now only play on zero speed, it's what Konami intended us to play the game on in the first place. I sat down the other day to watch a match on TV and also noticed that matches these days are indeed incredibly fast paced. The speed at which the ball is passed about pretty much makes PES2012 on zero speed seem just right.

I was initially a fan of PES adding a game speed option, and I guess it doesn't hurt to add it, but part of me thinks that maybe they should just do away with it and make us play the game the way they intended, like in the old days. But if they did, they'd have to get the speed just right. The last game to not provide an option was PES2010, and while I really enjoy that game, the speed of the ball is simply too fast. Comedy fast, at times.
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To be honest the only issue i have with the speed is that it doesn't represent the slower moments of a football match, which is one think i always thought people picked up on. A big issue for me with PES is that the game constantly feels like it is being played at one speed for the entire match. I want to be able, or even be enforced, to play with some variety and speed up or slow down my play when necessary. Right now there's no need to play in anyway but at a high speed (by that i don't mean the speed option in the menu) and for me that isn't something i want to see in a sports game anymore. I guess you could call it wanting the game to be more 'dynamic'.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Northzzz said:
To be honest the only issue i have with the speed is that it doesn't represent the slower moments of a football match, which is one think i always thought people picked up on. A big issue for me with PES is that the game constantly feels like it is being played at one speed for the entire match. I want to be able, or even be enforced, to play with some variety and speed up or slow down my play when necessary. Right now there's no need to play in anyway but at a high speed (by that i don't mean the speed option in the menu) and for me that isn't something i want to see in a sports game anymore. I guess you could call it wanting the game to be more 'dynamic'.
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In real football speed of play is dependent upon gamesituation, time on the clock, stamina/fatigue and the difference in quality between the teams involved:

For example if the gamesituation is such that your team is 2 goals behind, then the team will usually play fast. The reason is that playing fast makes it harder for the opposing defense to keep their positional play intact. On the other hand playing fast allows the opponent to get you on the counter if the ball gets lost (and this is more likely when playing fast) while in the middle of the attack.

But being behind 2 goals usually overcomes that fear of getting into a counter.

If it's equal in goals usually the game is slower because it is safer to keep possession in a slower pace.

If the time is nearly up for halftime or endtime usually the speed of game gets upped to achieve something before the time is over.

If a team is considerably better than the other qualitywise then this better team usually has it easier to keep possession and let the opponent run behind the ball and when the 60-70th minute comes usually the weaker team is more exhausted and the better team ups its speed forcing the opponent to make mistakes...

Usually in order to prevent that good coaches of weaker teams order their team to park the bus and play for counter in order not to get into the trap of getting exhausted.

So a lot of factors influence what speed is being used. Unfortunately the lack of a realistic realtime two-tiered-stamina/fatigue-system in PES 2012 takes away alot of that influence.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

A massive issue with PES is just the effectiveness of the CPU dribbling. I have just played two games today that whilst were exciting were a little ridiculously OTT, and it was all down to the way the CPU played. It's stating the already known, but the 'better' teams don't seem better in just purely football terms, but are better in running 100mph at you, for the entire game, usually with 3 or 4 forwards. The first game was a 3-2 win v Milan, where Robionho, Ibra, Cassano et al, just ran with unerring dribble speed and accuracy all game. Then a 5-4 loss to Man City, were Aguero, Dzeko, Tevez and Silva did exactly the same.

It's these type of games that just almost ruin the experience, and this is the problem with trying to gauge the optimum speed. Suddenly, -1 game speed which I had been happy with for the previous four or five games suddenly looked like +20 speed. Adding to this Man City played with like four or five strikers it was literally end to end for the entire 90 minutes.

The other thing I've decided needs a complete revamp after having a lot of high scoring games of late is the shot power and accuracy. I mean Ibra scored two rifling efforts that literally whistled past Reina from a half turn at the edge of the box, IRL he simply could't generate that much accuracy and power.

I think this is where my -2 gamespeed came into being, because against the top teams that play a dribbling game you need that touch of slowness to even try and read what's going on when an entire army of dribblers are coming at you, otherwise the game goes nuts.

What do you think?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
In real football speed of play is dependent upon gamesituation, time on the clock, stamina/fatigue and the difference in quality between the teams involved:

For example if the gamesituation is such that your team is 2 goals behind, then the team will usually play fast. The reason is that playing fast makes it harder for the opposing defense to keep their positional play intact. On the other hand playing fast allows the opponent to get you on the counter if the ball gets lost (and this is more likely when playing fast) while in the middle of the attack.

But being behind 2 goals usually overcomes that fear of getting into a counter.

If it's equal in goals usually the game is slower because it is safer to keep possession in a slower pace.

If the time is nearly up for halftime or endtime usually the speed of game gets upped to achieve something before the time is over.

If a team is considerably better than the other qualitywise then this better team usually has it easier to keep possession and let the opponent run behind the ball and when the 60-70th minute comes usually the weaker team is more exhausted and the better team ups its speed forcing the opponent to make mistakes...

Usually in order to prevent that good coaches of weaker teams order their team to park the bus and play for counter in order not to get into the trap of getting exhausted.

So a lot of factors influence what speed is being used. Unfortunately the lack of a realistic realtime two-tiered-stamina/fatigue-system in PES 2012 takes away alot of that influence.
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Agreed. That said i have never felt comfortable in playing slowly in Pes 2012 even when i've tried to, as in the times when you're ahead by a couple of goals and do not need to rush. It is now quite like Fifa in that if you play slowly you stand a very high chance of being robbed of the ball. I'm not even talking about laxidasical speed, more a conservative approach to passing and moving. I just don't think the game allows for this type of play. I feel much more in control running at the opposition than i do passing it around (even in my own half) and i think that's crazy. In Fifa it's generally because tackling is very easy where as in Pes it's generally because you lack the ability to properly shield the ball when you're on it. You can be constantly hassled and more often than not you'll lose the ball if you don't pass it straight away so i feel that i have to play at a higher speed than should be necessary. Again i've heard this criticism on here numerous times.

Then again i guess if a 2-tier stamina system was implemented, as i think it absolutely should be, then it may well stop this kind of thing. Constantly pressuring a team is a tiring aspect but it's basically the way to play the game when you're off the ball (as opposed to the more realistic method of allowing the opponent to have the ball in non-dangerous areas). Just like constantly dribbling at your opponents when on the ball it is not punished by way of stamina enough so the game ends up being played ths way for 90 minutes anywhere on the pitch. I think a lot of the problems we see would be alleviated with the implementation of a 2-tiered stamina system (providing it works). It's the only real conceivable way i can think of the game enforcing some kind of difference in the way you approach the speed of play.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Northzzz said:
Agreed. That said i have never felt comfortable in playing slowly in Pes 2012 even when i've tried to, as in the times when you're ahead by a couple of goals and do not need to rush. It is now quite like Fifa in that if you play slowly you stand a very high chance of being robbed of the ball. I'm not even talking about laxidasical speed, more a conservative approach to passing and moving. I just don't think the game allows for this type of play. I feel much more in control running at the opposition than i do passing it around (even in my own half) and i think that's crazy. In Fifa it's generally because tackling is very easy where as in Pes it's generally because you lack the ability to properly shield the ball when you're on it. You can be constantly hassled and more often than not you'll lose the ball if you don't pass it straight away so i feel that i have to play at a higher speed than should be necessary. Again i've heard this criticism on here numerous times.

Then again i guess if a 2-tier stamina system was implemented, as i think it absolutely should be, then it may well stop this kind of thing. Constantly pressuring a team is a tiring aspect but it's basically the way to play the game when you're off the ball (as opposed to the more realistic method of allowing the opponent to have the ball in non-dangerous areas). Just like constantly dribbling at your opponents when on the ball it is not punished by way of stamina enough so the game ends up being played ths way for 90 minutes anywhere on the pitch. I think a lot of the problems we see would be alleviated with the implementation of a 2-tiered stamina system (providing it works). It's the only real conceivable way i can think of the game enforcing some kind of difference in the way you approach the speed of play.
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A real time two-tiered stamina/fatigue-system would completely transform the game to be much more realistic, especially considering the constant double-pressing and constant running.

As it is right now all players get tired at about the 70th-minute regardless of how much they ran/dribbled/pressured during the match, which means it's only a cosmetical stamina-system.

As to playing slow, I have no problem doing so with zero-passing assistance. I just look around that I give the ball to someone free, sometimes even switching side by using a highball. As to the shielding, for me it works ok against a single attacker, I can turn around and gain time and often it's possible to lose him for a bit when making surprise movements. When two attackers are at me though it's nearly impossible to hold the ball for long, in that case I pass the ball to another of my players.

L2-passing is important for the offensive and R2 is important for the defense as well as for trapping hard passes.

I'm playing with -2 gamespeed by the way because individuality shines best on that speed, imho it's a tad too fast since the 1.06-patch.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Northzzz said:
Agreed. That said i have never felt comfortable in playing slowly in Pes 2012 even when i've tried to, as in the times when you're ahead by a couple of goals and do not need to rush. It is now quite like Fifa in that if you play slowly you stand a very high chance of being robbed of the ball. I'm not even talking about laxidasical speed, more a conservative approach to passing and moving. I just don't think the game allows for this type of play. I feel much more in control running at the opposition than i do passing it around (even in my own half) and i think that's crazy.
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Wanted to adress that one again. Imho you are wrong on this one. I just played a match on superstar to make sure I'm right:

The best way to play PES 2012 is not to use the run-button when attacking. Running should only be used when having acres of free space like for example during counter-attacks or if an attacker from the opponent got through your defense and you want to get him.

Other than these two scenarios it's best to play it slowly without running and using passing as the way to go forward. That way your players are much more balanced, their ballcontrol is better and you don't lose the ball due to pressure that works better when you're running (makes sense, when running usually players don't have that much control over the ball as when jogging, exception is of course Messi).
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I can't handle the build up of the CPU 100mph they do the quick ping pong build up and finish with a slide in the opposite direction to the goals but the ball trickles past the hapless keeper. Its completely illogical and I can't believe seabass would allow it in the game.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

zeemeister said:
I can't handle the build up of the CPU 100mph they do the quick ping pong build up and finish with a slide in the opposite direction to the goals but the ball trickles past the hapless keeper. Its completely illogical and I can't believe seabass would allow it in the game.
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Trust me on this, when you let go of the run-button and use it only very scarcely when really having lots of space to get through, ie. unchalleged, it will improve your attacking as well as defense.

I was really desperate to beat the CPU on top-player and superstar and I was using the run-button a lot, but no matter what I did the CPU was better than me, they were more composed and more clinical and my defense was half luck and half the opposite... until the day I just let go of the run-button and everything (!) is better now... My attacks are more focused and successful and my defense works better.

It was a revelation to me but now that I think about it, when I'm playing football in real-life I don't run all the time either only when lots of unchallenged space is there, cause when running you are easily brought out of balance due to inertia and momentum and you have less ball-control.

The game really works like in real life football, jogging and making good passes is the way to go. The same goes for defense, jogging and you have much better success in defending, except if the opponent got through and you need the running to get to him.
 
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LOL dude you speaking to a guy that presses more X than R1 I don't do sprinting. Thanks though I don't have issue breaking down defence I just hate the way the CPU plays at the most times. I must be honest though I haven't tried it after the latest patch
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

zeemeister said:
LOL dude you speaking to a guy that presses more X than R1 I don't do sprinting. Thanks though I don't have issue breaking down defence I just hate the way the CPU plays at the most times. I must be honest though I haven't tried it after the latest patch
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Sorry, didn't mean to come over as condescending.

The patch 1.06 really reduced the cheating (although it's still there) and players are more aware, goalkeeper is more competent in saving (though still stupid regarding positioning), imho much more enjoyable than before the patch.

Midfield-play is also more prominent. The only downside I see with the new patch is that the gamespeed were upped a step, so that -2 is imho a tad too fast.
 
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Just out of curiosity - has anyone heard any press releases re the Konami tour of Brazil? wasn't that this week?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Flaw3d Genius said:
Doesnt the Wii version have a two tier stamina system? Or was it PES online?
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I played last year's Wii version and from what I remember it's in. I'm not sure why it's not in PS3/360/PC.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

The best way to play PES 2012 is not to use the run-button when attacking. Running should only be used when having acres of free space like for example during counter-attacks or if an attacker from the opponent got through your defense and you want to get him.
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Yeah I agree, sprintng doesn't help you while attacking.
I use sprinting, but only to cross acres of space. When there's a defender nearby I use jogging or R2 slow dribble to avoid him.
I usually tap the sprint button instead of holding it, tapping the sprint button when the ball touches the player's foot. Let the ball do the work and only touch it when neeeded.
When you don't change you're running speed frequently the AI is very good in predicting your moves. Just a sudden stop and start can do wonders to bring an opponent out of balance.
Also when you lose the ball while sprinting, you are much slower at the loose balls. It seems there is a realtime stamina bar in the game, but it isn't visible.

But sprinting should be more usefull when dribbling an opponent to outrun him. KONAMI included that silly catch-up cheat (at least in vanilla PES) which makes it almost useless, because the catch-up starts only when you start to sprint, not to mention the use of the R1+R2 speedburst/knock on. There are PC gameplay patches around without catch-up cheating and it makes the game more realistc, fun. Sprinting makes sense than.

Also, it's obvious that you have to sprint during counters, but your teammates don't adapt their running speed to yours. They hesitate too much to make sure you can't counter.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

ccshopland said:
A massive issue with PES is just the effectiveness of the CPU dribbling. I have just played two games today that whilst were exciting were a little ridiculously OTT, and it was all down to the way the CPU played. It's stating the already known, but the 'better' teams don't seem better in just purely football terms, but are better in running 100mph at you, for the entire game, usually with 3 or 4 forwards. The first game was a 3-2 win v Milan, where Robionho, Ibra, Cassano et al, just ran with unerring dribble speed and accuracy all game. Then a 5-4 loss to Man City, were Aguero, Dzeko, Tevez and Silva did exactly the same.

It's these type of games that just almost ruin the experience, and this is the problem with trying to gauge the optimum speed. Suddenly, -1 game speed which I had been happy with for the previous four or five games suddenly looked like +20 speed. Adding to this Man City played with like four or five strikers it was literally end to end for the entire 90 minutes.

The other thing I've decided needs a complete revamp after having a lot of high scoring games of late is the shot power and accuracy. I mean Ibra scored two rifling efforts that literally whistled past Reina from a half turn at the edge of the box, IRL he simply could't generate that much accuracy and power.

I think this is where my -2 gamespeed came into being, because against the top teams that play a dribbling game you need that touch of slowness to even try and read what's going on when an entire army of dribblers are coming at you, otherwise the game goes nuts.

What do you think?
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zeemeister said:
I can't handle the build up of the CPU 100mph they do the quick ping pong build up and finish with a slide in the opposite direction to the goals but the ball trickles past the hapless keeper. Its completely illogical and I can't believe seabass would allow it in the game.
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There are defensive approach that of course many have tried before to reduce to certain extent this common CPU's 100mph and quick pingpong-ish styles of play.. i.e hold up play (R1+X), Tracking slowly (R2 correct me if i'm wrong) and just analogue run to track normally.. The latter is just like FIFA's Sprint + track slowly simultaneously.. (R1+L2 if i am not mistaken again)

Having the same issue as you guys from the beginning, now i can see CPU spend more time in passing around.. and see my defense cut cpu's pass more often..

It's inevitable that cpu's 100mph and regular end to end style will be a head ache for longer playing time :P . However i guess they are aware of this in PES 2013's press release. Let's see how this pans out later this year..
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Blanco said:
Yeah I agree, sprintng doesn't help you while attacking.
I use sprinting, but only to cross acres of space. When there's a defender nearby I use jogging or R2 slow dribble to avoid him.
I usually tap the sprint button instead of holding it, tapping the sprint button when the ball touches the player's foot. Let the ball do the work and only touch it when neeeded.
When you don't change you're running speed frequently the AI is very good in predicting your moves. Just a sudden stop and start can do wonders to bring an opponent out of balance.
Also when you lose the ball while sprinting, you are much slower at the loose balls. It seems there is a realtime stamina bar in the game, but it isn't visible.

But sprinting should be more usefull when dribbling an opponent to outrun him. KONAMI included that silly catch-up cheat (at least in vanilla PES) which makes it almost useless, because the catch-up starts only when you start to sprint, not to mention the use of the R1+R2 speedburst/knock on. There are PC gameplay patches around without catch-up cheating and it makes the game more realistc, fun. Sprinting makes sense than.

Also, it's obvious that you have to sprint during counters, but your teammates don't adapt their running speed to yours. They hesitate too much to make sure you can't counter.
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Agreed, the catchup-gamedesign-decision is disturbing. But it's probably done that way to prevent too many goals, cause obviously the AI is still not good enough to deal with a gameplay without catch-up.

Hopefully in PES 2013 the AI is good enough and the catch-up-bug/gamedesign is not necessary anymore.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
Wanted to adress that one again. Imho you are wrong on this one. I just played a match on superstar to make sure I'm right:

The best way to play PES 2012 is not to use the run-button when attacking. Running should only be used when having acres of free space like for example during counter-attacks or if an attacker from the opponent got through your defense and you want to get him.

Other than these two scenarios it's best to play it slowly without running and using passing as the way to go forward. That way your players are much more balanced, their ballcontrol is better and you don't lose the ball due to pressure that works better when you're running (makes sense, when running usually players don't have that much control over the ball as when jogging, exception is of course Messi).
Click to expand...

I just feel more comfortable on the ball, more in control if you will, when i'm dribbling forward then i do passing and moving the ball around at a slower pace. For whatever reason my player feels like they have greater control of the ball when they're running forward (though not sprinting at full speed) than they do when they are moving slowly with the ball at their feet. I'll be honest, i think a huge part of that is that when players jog/walk slowly in PES with the ball they look absolutely ridiculous. Like they're scared of the ball being so close to them and tentatively push it with every touch and in truth it couldn't be more unnatural. Again something people have spoken about on here before.

In addition, I feel like the game is pushing me towards the goal constantly even when i want to play a methodical passing game (i.e backwards and to the side) because my players are all convinced about running forward and attacking so i have no choice but to look to go that way too. For what it's worth i always assumed it was Konami's more attacking AI coming into the foray but really footballers don't look to attack for 90 minutes like they do in PES. Sure they attack sometimes but attacking in PES somehow manages to always feel like a magnet drawing my players towards the goal even when completely unnecessary. It curbs any kind of passing game i find because you're constantly pushed towards the box rather than allowed to pass the ball around and push forward when opportunities become available (like looking for space to manipulate).

That's just my experience with PES 2012 in a nutshell really.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

henrys hand said:
Agreed, the catchup-gamedesign-decision is disturbing. But it's probably done that way to prevent too many goals, cause obviously the AI is still not good enough to deal with a gameplay without catch-up.

Hopefully in PES 2013 the AI is good enough and the catch-up-bug/gamedesign is not necessary anymore.
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hmmm...I'm playing PES with a gameplaypatch without the catch-up-bug and it's not a goalfest. This also counts for the loose balls btw. It's silly when you see a player jog towards the ball while you press the sprint button. Or sprint in ridiculous small steps like they are running in a swamp.
That catch-up-bug is arcady, I remember racegames had these silly catch-up-bugs too.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Northzzz said:
I just feel more comfortable on the ball, more in control if you will, when i'm dribbling forward then i do passing and moving the ball around at a slower pace. For whatever reason my player feels like they have greater control of the ball when they're running forward (though not sprinting at full speed) than they do when they are moving slowly with the ball at their feet. I'll be honest, i think a huge part of that is that when players jog/walk slowly in PES with the ball they look absolutely ridiculous. Like they're scared of the ball being so close to them and tentatively push it with every touch and in truth it couldn't be more unnatural. Again something people have spoken about on here before.
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I can only speak of my experience and that is without the run-button, the players are more responsive, have better ballcontrol and can dribble better, ie. change direction and leaving an opponent player behind. When I press the run-button in the middle of the pitch, ie. not on the wings, ie. surrounded by my and opponent's players, I immediately draw the attention of the opponents and they try to pressure me.

The reason is of course that they know that as long as I'm running my reaction, ballcontrol and dribbling is worse and a tackling therefore more successful for them.

It took me a leap of faith, but without the running button the gameplay is better and opens up and it's also that way in real life football. Running has its use when lots of free space is to be get through or on the wings when there is only one defender tracking you and you want to make a cross into the goal-area or during defending when an attacker is running and you are at the same position or a little behind him, you need the running to catch-up. Or in loose-ball-situations, or when used sporadically (ie. just tapping it) to get an extrameter while dribbling, but otherwise it's better to leave the run-button alone.


Northzzz said:
In addition, I feel like the game is pushing me towards the goal constantly even when i want to play a methodical passing game (i.e backwards and to the side) because my players are all convinced about running forward and attacking so i have no choice but to look to go that way too. For what it's worth i always assumed it was Konami's more attacking AI coming into the foray but really footballers don't look to attack for 90 minutes like they do in PES. Sure they attack sometimes but attacking in PES somehow manages to always feel like a magnet drawing my players towards the goal even when completely unnecessary. It curbs any kind of passing game i find because you're constantly pushed towards the box rather than allowed to pass the ball around and push forward when opportunities become available (like looking for space to manipulate).
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Yes, they do tend to go forward, but this can be remedied to a certain extent. Try putting playersupport to zero and in the tactical help screen set the tactic on "super-defensive". This will calm them down quite a bit. There will be still players going forward a little, but you need not to react upon it (they will go forward a little, see you don't use them and they return), just slow down the pace and your team will adapt to your style.

And don't use the run-button, using it suggests to your teammembers you want to play fast and forward...

Oh, and try gamespeed -2, it's imho still a tad too fast, but the best available. And L2-passing in the midfield and last third of the pitch gives more freedom and options.

Northzzz said:
That's just my experience with PES 2012 in a nutshell really.
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The interesting thing, the experience of PES 2012 changes considerably with how one plays the game. It's worth to try different methods to experience the game differently.
 
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