FIFA World Cup Brasil 2014

gerd said:
Lucas.
I never wrote anything at all about Dilma, never.
I don't have anything against Brazil.

I have serious issues about this WC being organized in a rich country with as much very poor people, where billions were invested in useless new stadiums (Brasilia, Manaus and perhaps others).

About football.
Brazil is seen as a football super power. This is only biased on the past. I have seen world cups since 1970 and the last Brazilian national team that played good football was the 1982 team. In 2002 Brazil had great players but played very poor football and this under thesame coach, Scolari. I haven't seen a single god match from your tem during this World Cup.


If you want to think that this is haters, continue to delude yourself...


And on a personal note, if you criticise my posts, care to read them decently.
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Then sorry if I misquoted you. Indeed, now that I think about it you weren't criticizing the president but the fact we're hosting a WC (and soon the Olympics) when we could be spending money in something more important. If that's the case, this is something I completely agree.

I don't think hate is such a strong word for this situation when it is used so constantly on these forums. Again since I mentioned you in the post it's expected you would take it personal but it was never my intention. It was something I noticed while reading this thread.

Can't we call it hate when someone says he wants a specifically team to get hammered instead of 'a good win' to the opposite team? It was something I saw often here (not only concerning Brazil but other relevant teams as well)
 
jihado86 said:
and don't forget it's Germany we're talking about, best team in the world since 2008 (yes, better than Spain).
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The same Germany team who was knock out by the Spanish in 2008 and 2010. Or the same Germany team that lost against a Italy team that than lost 4-0 in the 2012 final against Spain.
For sure they are the best in the last decade. There (lack of) silverware speaks for it.
 
we7god said:
Of course this is very theoretical (i wonder if this word exists in english language :D:D). But i think it was the sum of different circumstances which together lead to this result.
The pressure from fans, media and the wish to win the title for the whole country. The losses of neymar and Silva etc, etc.
The pressure was too high i think, there was too much involved than just soccer issues.
The second goal finally killed brazil in this match. The reaction on the pitch and on the seats was the sane: they were simply shocked.

This and of course the efficency and accuracy of Germany lead finally to this result.
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totally agree.
 
andy18cruz said:
The same Germany team who was knock out by the Spanish in 2008 and 2010. Or the same Germany team that lost against a Italy team that than lost 4-0 in the 2012 final against Spain.
For sure they are the best in the last decade. There (lack of) silverware speaks for it.
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By following that logic, 2004 Greece is better (or as good as) 1982 Brazil. Don't judge a team by their silverware, that is an absolutely stupid idea.
 
jihado86 said:
and don't forget it's Germany we're talking about, best team in the world since 2008 (yes, better than Spain)
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user name 99 said:
By following that logic, 2004 Greece is better (or as good as) 1982 Brazil. Don't judge a team by their silverware, that is an absolutely stupid idea.
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If win 3 straight trophies, with absolute dominance at the world stage, win against the best oposition, does not make the best team in the World in that period, nothing will.

Silverware isn't everything, but is a good indicator of a team performance. If that's a stupid idea maybe Brazil's in the 50 trough early 70's aren't a good team after all.
 
andy18cruz said:
If win 3 straight trophies, with absolute dominance at the world stage, win against the best oposition, does not make the best team in the World in that period, nothing will.

Silverware isn't everything, but is a good indicator of a team performance. If that's a stupid idea maybe Brazil's in the 50 trough early 70's aren't a good team after all.
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yea, you can chalk up one trophy/tournament to luck but 3 in a row? No. Added to that the way they played, they were unbeatable and deservedly go down as one the greatest national teams in the history of the game. And imo probably number 1, certainly in my lifetime anyway
 
user name 99 said:
By following that logic, 2004 Greece is better (or as good as) 1982 Brazil. Don't judge a team by their silverware, that is an absolutely stupid idea.
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It's how history is written. I agree though, that Spain was clearly the best team of the last years and we were eliminated correctly. None of the German teams of the last tournaments deserved to win a trophy. This is the first German NT I ever saw I live that I think is an adequate title contender (even though they needed five games in this tournament to convince me of that).
 
Now that things are a little more settled I've actually thought about things in a different perspective. This WC's iteration of Brazil were only decent and had the WC not been in Brazil I'm pretty sure they'd struggle to qualify. Not saying they wouldn't have but it's not unlikely that they'd have to play an extra match in order to qualify. This is based on the relative strength of the remaining teams in that qualifying group.

We've all more or less agreed that it's a weak version of Brazil and the way they played illustrated it as well. High intensity, long ball football with a special player here and there, which theoretically could've been enough to take it home if it weren't for one major hickup. The pressure placed on this team was totally unrealistic and I also suspect that the pressure directly or indirectly (depends on perspective) affected the players in the Germany match. They fell like a house of cards and stopped playing as a team because everyone wanted to pull draw right from kick off, individually of course... The German players looked fairly surprised themselves, especially from 3-0 to 5-0 and was wondering what the heck was going on. I think everybody thought, myself included, Brazil would give the Germans a decent struggle for the match despite not being the Brazil we used to know. That obviously didn't happen, but on any normal day Brazil isn't six goals worse than a jogging Germany so something definitely went terribly wrong mentally with the players.

All in all I think Brazil should be proud of their team. Against all odds they're, worst case scenario, the fourth best team in the world anno 2014, which is a whole lot better than this team is on paper. They overachieved in my opinion, they gave it all to please ungrateful fans.

Another thing that has bothered me is that people bring up "the fact that such a loss is worse for Brazil because they love football so much.." and yada yada. Let me tell those people, if Croatia had won the WC the celebration would be insane. If Costa Rica had won, equally impressive. Italy? Ditto. Germany, definitely there too. And so on. Nobody deserves to win more than others and likewise doesn't deserve to be spared humiliation more than others, it's a silly game for crying out loud.

In reality there's no difference between a 4 goal loss and a 6 goal loss. Italy (2012), Spain (2014) and many others have experience that recently and they've bounced right the fuck back so I don't see why it would be any different with Brazil. (Technically Spain haven't bounced back just yet but I think that's fairly safe to assume). If Brazilian fans can't handle a heavy loss then they quite simply shouldn't play the game. It will happen again, sooner or later.

The final words I'm gonna utter in this matter, hopefully, is that I believe Brazil's gave it all and a little more. They wanted to make their country happy and they tried their very best and after all it was a decent attempt. That's what this team should be remembered for. Brazilian WC team, I salute you! Good luck and Até breve!
 
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Kanouté said:
Mustafi's injury vs Algeria was a blessing for Germany. with Lahm back in his true position, Germany started to play like they're expected to. (thank god Löw realized that too)

and similar goes for Argentina too. Demichelis' return with Agüero and esp Gago dropped from the XI they started to play very good defense and possession football. they're no impressive in attack like Germany, though. but with holland, both deserved to play the final compared to other "big"s but penalties said Argentina it is. although I think Germany looks like the best side in the tournament, the final is quite unpredictable for me. may the better team win... (my final would be GERvCOL tbh - technically impossible though)
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I beg to differ.
Netherlands barely attacked. On shot on target along 120 minutes.
Argentina had, at least, 4. During the first half, we clearly controled the match WITH the ball. On the second half, we decided to give the ball to Netherlands so we could create some lethal counter attacks, which actually never really happened because there were no lethal counter attacks. For me, this is very clear. I haven't heard nor read anybody saying it was unfair for Netherlands to get eliminated of the WC. Football is both attack AND defense. Argentina attacked very well on 3 matches (let's put it that way) and defended with great personality on 3 matches as well.


bebo said:
Germany are stocked pile in the middle. Then, you have that GK of their Neuer what a loon w/ brilliance. He runs out of his box to the half way line to kick a ball. Messi can score out of nothing and Germany could score from nearly everybody except Özil .
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You know how this things usually go, right?. Özil will be the man of the match and he'll score one or two goals.

bebo said:
I hope Di Maria gets to play he can change the game for them. Argie winning it will give Leo the edge over Maradona :). Germany could make history battered the host and win in S.America ! W/ Özil the most hated player in Germany .
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Apparently, Di Maria will make it. Sabella will choose to include him in the starting eleven (Enzo Perez out), even at the risk of having to take him out prematurely, instead of sending him in during the second half and risking of wasting 2 subs (Di Maria in - Di Maria out). It kinda makes sense though.
 
I'm going for Depay on Best Young Player. I've never heard of him before, he's not even 20 and he scored twice, one of them a powerful out-of-the-box smash. He took advantage of every minute he played.

Neuer, Navas and Romero go for best keeper. I'll take Navas, without discrediting the other two, but because his merit is much bigger as he was kinda like the "superhero" of this surprising Costa Rica. His impossible saves were extraordiary.

The Best Player award will be determined in the final, but up to now it might go for Kroos, Mascherano or James.
 
Chuny said:
I beg to differ.
Netherlands barely attacked. On shot on target along 120 minutes.
Argentina had, at least, 4. During the first half, we clearly controled the match WITH the ball. On the second half, we decided to give the ball to Netherlands so we could create some lethal counter attacks, which actually never really happened because there were no lethal counter attacks. For me, this is very clear. I haven't heard nor read anybody saying it was unfair for Netherlands to get eliminated of the WC. Football is both attack AND defense. Argentina attacked very well on 3 matches (let's put it that way) and defended with great personality on 3 matches as well.
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I'm a simple man, Chuny. how well the teams played, how well they attacked, how would someone rate their defence? it's all endless discussions everybody can see differently and everybody might be right too. but as long as the ref doesn't have a big influence on the score, football is a fair game to me. and for effectiveness, to put the ball into the net, it's what matters to me. I didn't like it when Greece won the Euro04 but can never say they didn't deserve it. and nowadays I've nothing but admiration to what Rehhagel did with that team. so NEDvARG ended as a draw in full time and the ref didn't play a part on that so it means both teams deserved the final imo. that's how I see it. :)

although I'd prefer a team that didn't win the trophy before, it's good to see a big NT like ARG in the final too. wish you guys good luck in the final btw.
 
Argentina will be forced to play a perfect game tactically and strategically. Even better than the one against Netherlands. But Lio Messi will be forced to play HIS own perfect match. Argentina has zero chances of getting crowned unless Messi does what he was used to do. Even if the other 10 players play the best match of their lives, Argentina has zero chances. Unless, of course, Messi shines as he got us used to.
 
Germany are good but they're not that good. If both teams play a "normal" match tactically and strategically, I'd say it's 55/45 in favor of Germany.
 
Chuny said:
Argentina will be forced to play a perfect game tactically and strategically. Even better than the one against Netherlands. But Lio Messi will be forced to play HIS own perfect match. Argentina has zero chances of getting crowned unless Messi does what he was used to do. Even if the other 10 players play the best match of their lives, Argentina has zero chances. Unless, of course, Messi shines as he got us used to.
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Nonsense. Argentina are absolutely on par.
 
Godotelli said:
yea, you can chalk up one trophy/tournament to luck but 3 in a row? No. Added to that the way they played, they were unbeatable and deservedly go down as one the greatest national teams in the history of the game. And imo probably number 1, certainly in my lifetime anyway
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I take it you were born in the late 1980s (or later) and don't plan on living much beyond say 2020? They were a very good team, but the best ever, I think that is a massive leap of judgement you have so many teams like Brazil early 80s, Germany 70s, even Zidane era France were close to what Spain did (shootout in semis of 96, then won 98, won 2000) and some might say did it with more panache. Also you don't know what will happen in the future, who is to say that another country wont emerge and have a fantastic 4-5 year spell.

All the talk of Spain being unbeatable but this Spain team was actually beaten by Switzerland in the WC and lost fairly heavily to Brazil and the USA in competitive matches over that period, and they fell off a metaphorical cliff against a Dutch team that (Spain apart) haven really destroyed other teams in terms of winning by a huge margin.

As for the way they play, well style of play is subjective anyway, is a whole series of single goal (usually 1-0) wins with lots of possession better in terms of style than another team's style? It depends on the viewer, but personally I'd prefer to watch Germany in the last 4-5 years than Spain, give me the big wins in the tournaments against Portugal and Brazil (14) England and Argentina (12) and even the slip ups against Croatia (08) and Serbia (10) and I'll take it over the procession of 1-0s against Portugal, Paraguay, Holland etc.
 
I was born in 81.

As for "best ever", come on man I'm obviously not saying that I can tell the future

It has become 'hip' recently to slag off Barca's/Spain's play but it was a masterclass in the art of passing. No team has ever passed the ball as well as they did. People can argue about what is entertaining but by my reckoning their play was football at its most sophisticated. Any team can lose a few games, I didn't say they were literally unbeatable, they did however play a revolutionary brand of football that I have yet to see rivaled in terms of sheer dominance over the opposing team.
 
WC's are more about being clever and being solid defensive than about offensive power.

Argentina are good defensively, they will neutralise the game, they have a cynical side and on top of that they have the best player ever...clear favourites...

I have no favourites in the fina; The only thing i would like to see is an early Germany goal,that will be the ony chance to see a good, spectacular match...

But what will most likely happen is that Argentina will play defensively and somehow score a goal and that will be that. 1-0 win or otherwise a win on penalties (hard against the Germans, they might loose that).

Still those teams are definitely the best of the tournament.

I hope Muller can win the golden boot, he is such a clever player...very underestimated.
 
The ref saving Brazil from probably another humiliation...

That was one of the most clear red card fouls I've seen recently.

Nice penalty by Van Persie though!
 
PK and yellow? Wow, two wrong calls in one action. At least the linesman MUST have seen that it should have been red and FK.

This is for what red for the "last man" was defined for, you won't see a more obvious red card action than this.

Edit: Yellow in the 9th minute in a match for third place for what Robben did there? Ref, come on.
 
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S-NipE said:
PK and yellow? Wow, two wrong calls in one action. At least the linesman MUST have seen that it should have been red and FK.

This is for what red for the "last man" was defined for, you won't see a more obvious red card action than this.
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Add the yellow for Robben just now to add to the ridiculous calls in the first 10 min. What a joke.
 
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